Wednesday, February 18, 2009

OBAMALISM....And The Real Answer

H/T to Conservative Brother for this video....


"He was born for this...At last he is here" (Beyonce)
"He speaks to our souls" (Gail King)
"The light of the new age is here (Forrest Whittaker)

I think it's facinating that I live in a country with so many idiots. They come in all shapes, sizes, and colors; all income levels and pedigree...Simply amazing!!!!

To reiterate -- If you are suffering from the effects of Obamalism there is help available. It can be found by seeking the one true answer to life's problems -- Jesus Christ.

117 comments:

uptownsteve said...

You're really offended by a black President aren't you?

AMAZING.

Conservative Black Woman said...

No, I'm offended by Christian who should know better. Jesus is our answer not Barack Obama.

But for the unsaved, unredeemed, uncalled this is to be expected.

UptownSteve, contrary to what you would like to believe about me, I love my people and believe in our abilities and potential both realized and unrealized. That's why I am saddened when we fall for the snares set for us by the enemy of our souls.

Katrina said...

I agree with you CBW, Christians are more excited about this man than they are about their Savior, Jesus Christ! It is sickening and sad to watch.

uptownsteve said...

Were you doing this much yapping during the Bush administration?

Was the invasion of Iraq a christian act?

How about the slow response to the victims of Katrina?

You think Jesus smiled on Dubya and Brownie about that?

"That's why I am saddened when we fall for the snares set for us by the enemy of our souls."

How is Obama "the enemy of our souls"???????

You're lurching into far wacko territory now my sista.

Conservative Black Woman said...

@UptownSteve~"Were you doing this much yapping during the Bush administration?"

No, nothing to yap about. Supposed Christians were not worshipping the person of George Bush.

Was the invasion of Iraq a christian act?

Hadn't really thought about it. Soemtimes war is necessary. I think the war on terror is a necessary war against radical jihadist who want to destroy America and Christians in particular. We live in a fallen world and so war's are going to happen.

"How about the slow response to the victims of Katrina?

What does that have to do with Obama worship. I don't worship GWB. I'm not trying to defend his actions nor have I ever done so.

"How is Obama "the enemy of our souls"???????

I'm not asserting that Obama is the enemy of our souls. I believe the the agenda left-- the progressive liberal agenda is the antithesis of God's will for his people. I posted an article today called "Today's Baal Worshipers" which gives more detail.

You're lurching into far wacko territory now my sista.

Well, you know what they say about opinions...they are like butt-holes everyone has one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

uptownsteve said...

"No, nothing to yap about. Supposed Christians were not worshipping the person of George Bush."

I'd love to see you prove that the enamoration of Obamafiles is any more intense than Bush's minions.

And even you cannot deny how the righties deified Ronald Reagan.

But of course THAT doesn't bother you.

http://alligatorreport.wordpress.com/2008/02/10/ronald-reagan-the-conservative-god-myth-over-reality/

Conservative Black Woman said...

@UptownSteve~"And even you cannot deny how the righties deified Ronald Reagan.

I personally don't see it, but I will not say it doesn't exist and whereever such "deification" exist it is just as abominable as the obama worship. When Reagan was elected I was in highschool and I remember running to the payphone and calling my mother to tell her that I thought Reagan was the "anti-christ"...lol. I certainly don't remember black folks, or church folks (black church folks that is) believing that Reagan was "bringing light to the new-age" or "was born to lead us" or "speaks to our souls".

The issue really isn't Barack Obama for me, it isn't even non-believers who worship him. AGAIN my issue is with Christians who have thrown the Lord under the bus!!! It's a problem for me whether the Lord is usurped for Barack Obama, George Bush, Ronald Reagan, WHOMEVER!!!!

Digital Publius said...

Well said CBW!

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
II Peter 3:3-7

uptownsteve said...

"The issue really isn't Barack Obama for me, it isn't even non-believers who worship him. AGAIN my issue is with Christians who have thrown the Lord under the bus!!!"

Oh geez.

JudyBright said...

It's times like these that I'm glad I'm a Christian, because I've been given insight into spiritual things. Humans are made to worship, and if we don't worship the true God, we will worship something. That something is Barack Obama for many people. The messianic references that come out of people's mouths without them even knowing it is amazing.

Have you seen that magazine that says "Barack Obama America's Hope" on it? Crazy.

There is always a segment of the population that will 'worship' a president, but the movement for Obama is unprecedented in America. I generally supported Bush, but also had a lot of problems with what he did and was frustrated with him often. I guess I didn't voice it too much because I felt like I'd be piling on. I've never seen so much hatred displayed towards someone for so many reasons. Bush never had the personality type that people tend to worship anyways. He was often awkward and a terrible communicator.

brotherkomrade said...

"To reiterate -- If you are suffering from the effects of Obamalism there is help available. It can be found by seeking the one true answer to life's problems -- Jesus Christ."

What's the difference? You had one black man tens of thousands of years ago who had his worshipers and later became a symbol of worship and you have another today being worshiped as well. What's the difference?

Conservative Black Woman said...

BrotherKomade~"What's the difference? You had one black man tens of thousands of years ago who had his worshipers and later became a symbol of worship and you have another today being worshiped as well. What's the difference?'


The former is authentic -- the latter counterfeit....
"As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you.”
“For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.”
“You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.”
“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.”
“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.”

Matthew 24:3-8

uptownsteve said...

brotherkomrade,

These black righties still have the slave mentality.

They can't accept the notion of a black man being the leader of the free world.

So instead of just coming out and saying THAT (would we be hearing any of this "messiah" crapola if a white man had been elected President last November) CBW and the gang are now proclaiming their undying love for Jesus.

As if their religion has anything to do with dealing with the problems this nation faces today.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UptownSteve~Why don't you just admit that you don't understand me and "my gang"? The reason you don't understand is a matter for you to work out with the Lord.

I have clearly communicated to you (repeatedly) what my problem is yet you insist that I have a problem with a black president and then you question why I consider your reasoning pathological. As if there is no other logical (to your mind anyway) reason for my "yapping". You are the one residing in wacko world my friend.

But, Satan is an accuser of the bretheren so I guess you are just doing the biddings of your father.

Zabeth said...

“They can't accept the notion of a black man being the leader of the free world.”

Just like you can’t seem to accept that not all black people in America agree with you, think and vote within a monolith, and actually have individual opinions?

“As if their religion has anything to do with dealing with the problems this nation faces today.”

Religion probably could solve many of the country’s problems. I’m not speaking of Christianity in particular but all forms of religion. It is my observation that people who believe that there is a power greater than themselves live their lives differently (i.e. practice personal responsibility; take sex and family a bit more seriously; consider morality and sin ala greed; etc). That can change many things that have gone haywire in this country. And yes I know there are people out there who claim to be religious but are highly immoral. I get that. I’m not saying it’s a perfect solution, I’m saying it’s something to consider.

uptownsteve said...

"Just like you can’t seem to accept that not all black people in America agree with you, think and vote within a monolith, and actually have individual opinions?"

The problem with negroes like you is that you seem to wear your disconnect from black America as a badge of honor.

Black Americans are not a monolith and (it's amazing that I have to explain this to a black person)we do have individual opinions and examine issues.

However we are not going to waste our vote on a party which has actively rejected our participation for 40 some odd years.

When have Repubs campaigned in black neighborhoods? Black radio?
In black churches?

They have actively REJECTED our vote and people like you condemn the black community for not voting Republican?????????

The amazing thing is that the same white conservatives that you perform for will not support black candidate for any elective office (name the black elected Republican above the rank of railroad commissioner) and yet you won't say a word about THAT.

Modern day slaves.

uptownsteve said...

"I have clearly communicated to you (repeatedly) what my problem is yet you insist that I have a problem with a black president and then you question why I consider your reasoning pathological."

WHAT DOES OBAMA HAVE TO DO WITH YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?????

uptownsteve said...

"Religion probably could solve many of the country’s problems. I’m not speaking of Christianity in particular but all forms of religion."

Absolutely absurd.

More blood has been shed and more carnage has been committed in the name of religion that any other one entity.

Just look at the Middle East.

Zabeth said...

“They have actively REJECTED our vote and people like you condemn the black community for not voting Republican?????????”

I don’t condemn black people for not voting Republican- I could care less, because I RECOGNIZE that not everyone will think the way I do. I don’t begrudge you or lambaste you for your opinions- which is exactly what you have continued to do on various black conservative blogs- so please do not do the same thing to me. Furthermore, I wholeheartedly recognize that not all AAs think in a monolith- as evidenced here. You’re the one who has continually perpetrated this “monolith” idea by shunning, mocking, and insulting those who are not in lock step with your point of view!

“More blood has been shed and more carnage has been committed in the name of religion that any other one entity.”

Also absurd and another liberal lie. Weren’t Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, and Pol Pot secularists (secularism being defined as “a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship”)? They did their killing in the name of no religion. How much blood was on their hands?

uptownsteve said...

"Also absurd and another liberal lie."

Oh really?

The Inquisition.

Roman Persecution of Christians.

Islamic Jihads.

The Puritan Witch Hunts.

Aztec Human Sacrifices.

The colonialization of Africa and the Americas was based on spreading Christianity.

JudyBright said...

Can I be a part of your gang? That would be awesome. Maybe we could make t-shirts.

Zabeth said...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My point is not to say that killing in the name of religion never happened, 'cause it did, but that it is a lie to say that "more blood has been shed and more carnage has been committed in the name of religion that any other one entity" because it's just not accurate. Hitler, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, and Pot are responsbile for the deaths of millions of people. So please do not just point the finger at the religious.

Domestic Divapalooza said...

Your post caught my attention today. It could not have come at a more perfect time. I too and frustrated and struggling with the fact that Christians all over the United States voted for the most Liberal, most PRO-ABORTION president that has ever walked the face of our country. They have taken what they know and have tossed it out the window for this man.

CappuccinoLife said...

lol

"so many idiots".

You are awesome!

conservative brother said...

No president in history has been idolized and worshiped to the extent that Obama has been. Even Bill Clinton wasn't worshiped like this. They're is no rational nor logical explanation to possibly justify it. Obama's ideology is no different then other liberals that have come before him as President. I don't recall any schools being renamed after Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, JFK, LBJ or FDR before they were even sworn in as President. The question is why? The only thing different about Obama is the color of his pigmentation. So is Obama being judged on a "god like" level based on him being a ultra liberal and the color of his skin as a President?

brotherkomrade said...

"Just like you can’t seem to accept that not all black people in America agree with you, think and vote within a monolith, and actually have individual opinions?"

Ah yes, the ever all-powerful, ever mythologized, ever imaginary, Black Monolith inc.

Yes, the Black Monolith(inc.) that black conservatives need to conjure up as a specter to:

sell books,
products,
op-eds,
movie deals,
and radio shows.

The Black Monolith Inc., always touted by black 'victims' who are:
conservatives,
post-modern victim-fetishists of the Derrida-Foucault variety (these are leftists by the way),
and just plain self-hating paranoid black folx who think WAAAAY too much of themselves.


Well, in all my years that I have actually WORKED and LIVED NEXT to REAL BLACK PEOPLE, have I ever been attacked as a black individual who happens to:

1. Be an atheist
2. Be in an interracial relationship

3. Advocate full autonomy liberation of women

4. full autonomy/rights for the LGBT folx

5. hold an ideological view that is not beholden of the supposed 'black mainstream'

And not one time have I felt on the 'outs', attacked, or hated by The Black Monolith inc.

Although items #3 and #4 has put me in opposition to the patriarchal/homophobes of our community, (isn't it interesting that those views are VERY much the views beholden of the right-wing? I guess black conservatives aren't the rebels that they say they are.)
my views and those differences, have never compelled me to attack black folk by labeling them as some evil, ignorant stone-throwing ape-people.

Then again, I don't have a book to sell.

Conservative Black Woman said...

BrotherKomrade~I have lived next to "real black people" too. It's not the one's you see everyday who will condemn you to your face. How can you do such a thing to a real living breathing person that you actually know. It's much easier to demonize people who you don't know personally who just write book, blogs and/or blog comments. I don't share my political views with strangers but they just assume I'm an Obama supporter....why is that? Because I'm black!!!

The "group think" mentality that blacks are expected to have is not imagined...and you know it isn't.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Actually BrotherKomrade I have been thinking about your comment and I think you prove my point. In the black community you are free to marry a white woman or man, be an athiest, a radical, a muslim, a jew, a homosexual, a transexual, a pervert, an abusive parent, a crack head, hell maybe even a pedophile...but dang sure better not be a republican! If this blog were a interracial, Lesbian/gay/transgenders, Parents and friends of gays & Lesbians, pan african, messianic jewish, even a "I wanna marry an ex-convict" blog and the avarice and malice espoused by the likes would not be present.

Again my issue isn't with you and uptownsteve! I expect ya'll to eat a yard of Obama dookey and asking for more...it's christian folks that disappoint me. His positions on issues of the day are anathema to the things of God the things the I care about--that Christians not non-christian should care about.

brotherkomrade said...

Ahh yes, the out of control, crazy black folk...the other imaginary manifestation of the black community as painted so well by black conservatives (see Steele and others). I believe that narrative so well renditioned by the first wave of black neocons of the late 80s and 90s had crack-headed mamas servicing drug dealers with kids watching and blood gushing in the gutters.

Pedophiles? We love pedophiles now. That's a new one on me.

My point is that my views may not be accepted if it weren't for the fact that I contributed in one way or another to some form of work in the community instead of being on the sidelines and attacking it and giving myself some shine by talking about how the great Black Monolith inc. was "keeping me down".

Conservative Black Woman said...

Oh make no mistake about it...The Great Black Monolith, Inc. has no power to keep me down.

BTW, I am by no means on the sidelines either.

brotherkomrade said...

I'm sure you're not on the sidelines, CBW, most of my comments were aimed at the more famous black conservatives and others in general.

brotherkomrade said...

btw, I may joke about "a hippie on a cross" but I don't mean it as a put down of believers. Never have I ever felt superior or better than believers.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

conservative brother said...

brother "Ahh yes, the out of control, crazy black folk...the other imaginary manifestation of the black community as painted so well by black conservatives (see Steele and others)"

What exactly are the things that black conservatives are saying about the black community that isn't "inaccurate". Sorry to burst you're bubble brotherK, but it is what it is. The true problems rest with black liberals that want to bury their heads in the sand and desperately pretend that the problems don't exist. Sounds familiar?

namaste said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
uptownsteve said...

"What exactly are the things that black conservatives are saying about the black community that isn't "inaccurate"

That blacks are a monolith..

That blacks have a victim mentality..

That blacks want something for nothing.

That blacks sit around blaming the "white man" for their problems.

etc, etc ad nauseam.

It's the same old squat that white racists have been saying for years and now you pscyhologically screwed up black righties blindly repeat it.

The perversity of the whole thing is that you somehow feel "courageous" for regurgitating racist lies.

It defies credulity.

uptownsteve said...

brother komrade

February 18, 2009 8:00 PM

GREAT POST.

uptownsteve said...

Conservative Brother

"No president in history has been idolized and worshiped to the extent that Obama has been."

Not even Reagan, the president whose picture adorns your posts??

Do you realize that Reagan opposed the Civil Rights Act, the MLK holiday and was a supporter of South African apartheid?

You're not real bright, are you?

But then again if you were, you wouldn't be a conservative.

brotherkomrade said...

What's true, CB is that there was a crack epidemic, what's untrue was that EVERYONE was on crack.

What's true is that people broke into stores and looted in the LA rebellion. What's untrue was that there was an all-out killing spree of each other in L.A. during the rebellion.

The subhumans who write their op-ed pieces and labeled as conservatives (who happened to have been black) needs to paint black folx in the way that racists LIKE to see black people; in the only way they are comfortable with seeing them (don't fool yourself, CB, you're not the kind they like. No, really, you're the kind they like.). And they do this in the lowest form of opportunism.

uptownsteve said...

"In the black community you are free to marry a white woman or man, be an athiest, a radical, a muslim, a jew, a homosexual, a transexual, a pervert, an abusive parent, a crack head, hell maybe even a pedophile...but dang sure better not be a republican!"

Oh this is just ridiculous and more evidence of the black conservative victimology syndrome.

Look, no one is seeking to abridge the civil liberties of black conservatives.

You are free to believe what you want.

But expect to be called out for your anti-black rhetoric and alignment with white bigots.

This is not complicated.

Just listen to yourself CBW.

Being a pervert or pedophile is more acceptable in the black community than being a conservative????

Really, how do you expect black people to react to nonsense like that?

Conservative Black Woman said...

Perhaps I was stretching the truth for illustrative purposes with the pedophile thing.... but you know black conservatives are reviled.

But the difference is I don't feel victimized. I am what I am and I make no apologies for it. Call me what you wanna... you know what I am saying is true and that's what makes you so angry. Too much illumination! Makes you want to cover your eyes....I understand...ir'a ok.

Conservative Black Woman said...

oops, I meant to say...it's ok.

uptownsteve said...

"you know what I am saying is true and that's what makes you so angry. Too much illumination! Makes you want to cover your eyes....I understand...ir'a ok."

LOL!!!!

Just more negrophobia.

Us awful blacks just can't deal with the ugly truth about ourselves huh CBW?

And you negroes wonder why.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Us awful blacks"

Who said blacks are awful or that it's awful being black???!!!!

Get over yourself, Uptown.

uptownsteve said...

CBW

Well what is this "truth" that you're imparting that I'm so afraid to face?

Conservative Black Woman said...

So glad you asked. That Christians need to place their faith in our Heavenly Father not Barack Obama. Christian's should stop idolizing Barack Obama. I was only really talking to christian folks....

That was the only point of this post my friend.

Beyond that..the problems in the black communities are our own and we should solve them and not look to the government or white folks...that's all. Not all black folks have issues but enough do that it effects us all! Too many of OUR sons are being gunned down in the streets (that's real)why? They are angry? Why? Where are their daddy's? PROBLEM!!!! Too many of OUR children drop out of school.Why? Poverty? Why? Where are their daddy's? You may be caring for your children but everyone isn't. This children are discouraged, dejected, just plain pissed...So, they wreck havoc on OUR communities, they will date MY Daughter...I'm concerned, I care, I want MY people who are in the throws of this cycle to stop this madness!!!! So if you want to call me a sell-out, fine. But the most precious thing I have... MY daughter will be navagating in this world and I want her dating pool to be expanded-- she's bored with the Jack and Jill guys -- plus many of them are dating white girls (wow, that was a digression). But believe me I not some wicked, deceived, Negrophobe. Nothing more beautiful on the face of the earth to me than a black man. I just want things to be better for the generation to follow is all.

brotherkomrade said...

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Jack and Jill guy?"

Conservative Black Woman said...

Jack & Jill is a social group for black children who either reside in predominately white communities or predominately white schools.

They do civic projects, cotillions, and semi-annual overnight conventions. I belonged as a child and still maintain friendship with the individuals who were in J&J with me.

uptownsteve said...

CBW

No one denies that there are major problems in the inner city ghetto.

But the difference in being genuinely concerned about social problems and being an Uncle Tom is the first one seeks to find the reasons why problems exist and then offers solutions.

The second loudly and incessantly decries the existence of problems and then assigns them a color.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"But the difference in being genuinely concerned about social problems and being an Uncle Tom is the first one seeks to find the reasons why problems exist and then offers solutions.

The second loudly and incessantly decries the existence of problems and then assigns them a color."

Great point! I can almost agree. I believe that answer is re-building our families. Children need to be nurtured and parented by their parents...not the school, not a mentor, they need their mama's and daddy's. I wholeheartedly believe when we black men and women start marrying each other and working together financially...then things will get better. They will be able to build wealth and pass it along to their children. Unless, black men start loving and marrying their women things aren't going to change...it's that simple. We need to bring some semblance of morality back to our lives in order to prosper culturally and financially (I'm do mean to sound holier than thou-- I'm not) I just believe God's way is best and because we have turned from Him we are suffering the consequences.

uptownsteve said...

CBW

I always though the Jack $ Jill Foundation was an African-American charitable association which sponsored scholarships and grants for social work.

I never once heard anything about it being for blacks who grew up in white neighborhoods.

Granted, a good deal of Jack and Jill are from the black upper class but many (and I know a couple)grew up in predominately black environments.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Yes, that's the same organization. When I was a kid many of the kids lived in black communities but these days that doesn't seem to be the case. At least in our chapter most of the kids live in suburbia and the parents thought it was important that they meet other blacks like themselves.

uptownsteve said...

"Unless, black men start loving and marrying their women things aren't going to change...it's that simple."

Well of course I don't believe it's that simple.

How about women refusing to be baby mommas and insist on committments before unprotected sex?

Women are the bosses of their own bodies, aren't they?

And in black middle class communities like where I live there are strong two parent households so I don't believe this to be a "black" issue.

JMK said...

“Oh this is just ridiculous and more evidence of the black conservative victimology syndrome.

”Look, no one is seeking to abridge the civil liberties of black conservatives.

“You are free to believe what you want.

“But expect to be called out for your anti-black rhetoric and alignment with white bigots.” (UTS)
<
<
Now THIS really IS funny...“expect to be called (mocked, maligned, ostracized – VICTIMIZED) for your (what dumb folks perceive as) anti-black rhetoric...”

While decrying the "false victimology” of black Conservatives, UTS acknowledges that they deserve to be victimized!

Funny stuff...and by “funny,” of course, I mean pathetic.

CBW put it, the way virtually all black Conservatives do, “I don't feel victimized. I am what I am and I make no apologies for it.”

The argument that "black Conservatives aren't victimized (assailed, abused, reviled) by liberals black & white, DESPITE the fact that their anti-black rhetoric DESERVES victimization," is about as dumb as, well as using budget DEFICITS and the National Debt interchangeably!

uptownsteve said...

"While decrying the "false victimology” of black Conservatives, UTS acknowledges that they deserve to be victimized!"

Criticism is victimization????

I know how protective you white righties are of your black conservative pets but trust me on this, you sound kind of silly here.

uptownsteve said...

And of course JMK has NO problem with black righties mocking and attacking black progressives as CBW does on her blog daily, does he????

Get real.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"mocking and attacking black progressives"

LOL...That's funny UTS! Who's the victim now? I'm sorry if I hurt your wuttle feelings (not a typo)by telling the truth about the black quasi-socialist progressive fundamentist racism chaser.

uptownsteve said...

Telling the truth????

ROTFLMBAO!!!!!

You black righties wouldn't know the truth if it was dangling on your chin.

I already busted you and Uncle Bob Parks and your "lies by omission" just yesterday.

Like shooting fish in a barrell

JMK said...

"Criticism is victimization????" (UTS)
<
<
Nope, but calling those who advocate LESS government spending, LOWER taxes, more market-based economic policies, etc. "anti-black" isn't "criticism," it's vile, unfounded, tinfoil hat wearing abuse.

Big difference.

JMK said...

"And of course JMK has NO problem with black righties mocking and attacking black progressives as CBW does on her blog daily, does he????" (UTS)
<
<
Actually I've never seen CB W do anything like that.

In fact, she's always pretty restrained in the face of some pretty vicious attacks hurled at her.

Me, yeah, I have called leftists "stupid" but, so far, I haven't been proven wrong.

Hey! I even went out of my way to help YOU out!

You'd erroneously said that Clinton left the country DEBT FREE...that he'd left a surplus NOT a debt....and I showed you the difference between a budget DEFICIT and the National DEBT.

In FACT, Clinton left a $5.6 TRILLION National Debt...which has ballooned to over $10 TRILLION by the end of GW's tenure (over $3 TRILLION of that increase came since 2007 via the Pelosi-Reid spending spree).

The poor aren't owed anything.

In fact, they OWE the rest of us!

What do they owe?

Exactly the same thing EACH of us owes - our own slavish devotion to being as productive as we can be.

If I lose a job in NYC...it's up to me to FIND work, not for work to find me. If there are jobs going begging out on Nevada and Colorado (and there ARE), then it's on me to go out there and "get after it." One only has a "right" to stay in their home place so long as they can afford to.

That's what LIBERTY is "full self-ownership and the grinding burden of responsibility that comes with that...it's "freedom FROM government," NOT "freedom FROM drudgery and work."

uptownsteve said...

"You'd erroneously said that Clinton left the country DEBT FREE...that he'd left a surplus NOT a debt....and I showed you the difference between a budget DEFICIT and the National DEBT."

LIE.

I stated that Clinton left a budget surplus and Bush doubled the federal deficit.

And as far as your rants about what the poor are "owed" where did I say they were "owed" anything?

"Nope, but calling those who advocate LESS government spending, LOWER taxes, more market-based economic policies, etc. "anti-black" isn't "criticism," it's vile, unfounded, tinfoil hat wearing abuse."

This is sophistry on your part.

If it were as simple as differences in political ideology then you would see little of the hostility that exists on both sides.

But you're being deliberately obtuse.

Black conservatives function as attack dogs for white bigots by presenting their racist arguments in blackface.

Did you miss when CBW stated that it's more acceptable to be a crackhead or a pedophile in the black community than to be a conservative?

Zabeth said...

UTS said: “Did you miss when CBW stated that it's more acceptable to be a crackhead or a pedophile in the black community than to be a conservative?”

The quote (and it’s context) was actually: “Actually BrotherKomrade I have been thinking about your comment and I think you prove my point. In the black community you are free to marry a white woman or man, be an athiest, a radical, a muslim, a jew, a homosexual, a transexual, a pervert, an abusive parent, a crack head, hell maybe even a pedophile...but dang sure better not be a republican! If this blog were a interracial, Lesbian/gay/transgenders, Parents and friends of gays & Lesbians, pan african, messianic jewish, even a "I wanna marry an ex-convict" blog and the avarice and malice espoused by the likes would not be present.” I would add that it would appear that in the BC you can think and believe whatever you want, as long as it coincides with the left wing/liberal/progressive/democrat agenda.

Furthermore, many people in the BC rallied to side of the likes of R. Kelly, OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, Isaiah “It’s Ok to call Black women bitches” Thomas; and the largely black city of Washington D.C. re-elected mayor Marion “Crackhead” Barry to office. Just sayin’.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"No, I'm offended by Christian who should know better. Jesus is our answer not Barack Obama."

I agree, JESUS is our answer, not Conservatism, Liberalism, Sociaolism, Capitalism, Humanism, etc., etc.

uptownsteve said...

"Furthermore, many people in the BC rallied to side of the likes of R. Kelly, OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, Isaiah “It’s Ok to call Black women bitches” Thomas; and the largely black city of Washington D.C. re-elected mayor Marion “Crackhead” Barry to office. Just sayin’."

Oh geez.

And many folks in the "WC" rallied behind Larry Craig (still in office), David Vitter (still in office) Dog the Bounty Hunter (still on TV) Don Imus (still on the radio), Robert Downey (still making movies), Phil Spector (murdered a girl, not in jail, Mel Gibson, etc...etc....ad nauseam.

You negroes are pathetic with your self-hatred.

JMK said...

"You'd erroneously said that Clinton left the country DEBT FREE...that he'd left a surplus NOT a debt....and I showed you the difference between a budget DEFICIT and the National DEBT." (JMK)
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"LIE."

"I stated that Clinton left a budget surplus and Bush doubled the federal deficit." (UTS)
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Whoa! That fake outrage was really great!

Was it good for you too?


Actually, I took the 15 seconds to go back and look it up, so here's the exchange;

"If evil Bush entered office with a $5 trillion debt and exited with an $11 trillion debt - where did the $6 trillion spread go?" (CF)
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"What smelly orifice did you pull this crap from?"

"Clinton left Bush with $127 billion budget surplus."

"Get your facts straight Rastus." (UTS)
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CF correctly stated that Clinton left Bush with a $5 TRILLION National DEBT (he NEVER mentioned budget deficits)...it was exactly a $5.6 TRILLION National DEBT that G W Bush inherited, and it climbed, due to Bush's overspending (two necessary wars, a domestic anti-terror build-up, the prescription drug boondoggle, the NCLB Act and he spent more, even adjusted for inflation, on reckless, irresponsible social spending than LBJ did) all the way to $10.2 TRILLION by the time he left ofice, though, to be fair, nearly $3 TRILLION of that came since 2007, with the Pelosi-Reid Congress' spending spree.

So, you responded to CF's absolutely CORRECT assertion that the National DEBT when G W Bush took office was $5 TRILLION, by claiming "Clinton left Bush with $127 billion budget surplus"...a staggeringly ignorant reply, as it implies you belive Bush inherited NO/ZERO National DEBT, but a $127 BILLION budget SURPLUS....and followed by an equally ridiculous insult.

Right Rastus?

THAT response to CF was either a bald faced LIE on your part, or, more likely than not, your failing to understand the difference between DEBT and DEFICIT.

See? I gave you the benefit of the doubt (for not being a horse-shit liar) when I figured it was more likely a matter of you not knowing the difference between the National DEBT (which is what CF referred to) and a budget SURPLUS, which you confused with the DEBT in your reply.

Black Conseratives run the gammut of the ideological spectrum. Like ALL Conservatives, they tend to favor SMALLER government, LOWER taxes, but other than that, there are many who are motivated by their religious and moral precepts (opposing abortion, etc.), while others are more secular in their world view.

Black Conservatives think for THEMSELVES....unlike too many liberals (black & white) who've been indoctrinated into veritable left-wing ditto-heads by an overwhelmingly leftist mainstream media and academia.

In truth, its black liberals who are the "pets" of white liberals - so quick to throw oreo cookies at the likes of Mike Steele on command and on cue bash the likes of Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice....perhaps to curry favor with their liberal white cousins???

Can you see how vapid and ridiculous your arguments are? I figure it may be easier for you to see that when they're used against you.

uptownsteve said...

"So, you responded to CF's absolutely CORRECT assertion that the National DEBT when G W Bush took office was $5 TRILLION, by claiming "Clinton left Bush with $127 billion budget surplus"..."

Well didn't Clinton leave office with a budget surplus and didn't Bush double the national DEBT?

Yes or No?

"Black Conservatives think for THEMSELVES."

Puh-leeze.

Black conservatives think and talk like YOU which is why you champion them as the only "intelligent" blacks in the country although they represent less than 10% of our community.

We KNOW what's up with that.

"In truth, its black liberals who are the "pets" of white liberals - so quick to throw oreo cookies at the likes of Mike Steele on command and on cue bash the likes of Colin Powell, Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice....perhaps to curry favor with their liberal white cousins???"

Most black folks I know (and I'm sure I know more than you) may disagree with Powell and Rice's politics but admire their accomplishments.

Michael Steele and Thomas are hustlers who used their race to advance themselves in Republican politics.

NOVELTIES.

Were they white, we wouldn't even be discussing them.

Answer this Mr. White Guy.

Why have black liberals advanced to President of the US (with plenty of white support) Governorships, 48 congressional seats, numerous mayoralties etc and a black conservative can't get elected dog catcher?

But you LOVE them so much.

What black have you ever voted for?

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Why have black liberals advanced to President of the US (with plenty of white support) Governorships, 48 congressional seats, numerous mayoralties etc and a black conservative can't get elected dog catcher?"

Because black liberals are merely the minions, footsoldiers if you will to advance the agenda of the liberal left. They delight in creating chaos in confusion, they delight in the high murder rate of black men, the delight in you BQSPFRC or black liberals spit convince the masses that they are being oppressed and victimized by the white man. The liberal left's agenda would be all screwed up if black folks stop buying into the dumb-azz rhetoric spewed by you and your ilk. God forbid. Then how would they get elected and maintain power? Who would line the pockets of their union officials. Hell, who would go see the movies they produce that portray blacks as ganster, whores, fat, sloppy, unhealthy and dumb as hell. So you black liberals are doing a good job of deceiving your very own people. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are not doing black folks any favors by encouraging the black folks to suckle the tit of a nanny government state.

You have children UTS, and I would imagine that you love them very much. Would you encourage your children to remain dependent on you all of their lives? Is that a loving act. Of course not. So why do you think white liberals, the democrat party, liberal left love black folks by wanting them to remain dependent from cradle to grave on the goverment?

JMK said...

"Well didn't Clinton leave office with a budget surplus and didn't Bush double the national DEBT?" (UTS)
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You're regressing. I thought I helped you understand the difference between the two.

The National DEBT and the Budget DEFICIT are TWO distinct and VERY different things....they CANNOT be used interchangably under ANY circumstances.

The fact that you're still doing that shows you don't understand the difference.

The National Debt in January of 2001 (when Bill Clinton left office) was $5.6 TRILLION!

In January of 2009 it stood at $10.2 TRILLION....it NOW (1 month later) stands at $10.7 TRILLION and counting...soon to approach the $15 TRILLION mark?!

Lots of people make that mistake (debt vs deficit) UTS, so don't feel bad, just learn from it.
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"Why have black liberals advanced to President of the US (with plenty of white support) Governorships, 48 congressional seats, numerous mayoralties etc and a black conservative can't get elected dog catcher?" (UTS)
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Uhhhh, because, as Larry Elder(among others have astutely noted) "blacks are more racist than whites?"

You asked.

I don't think, I KNOW that Elder's right on that one. I worked in the South Bronx for nearly 20 years and I can attest that that's true, although I'd phrase it "blacks are more color-conscious and bigoted than whites."

I reject that word "racist", it's a bullshit term for "bigoted", that real bigots have used to hide behind. Ever hear that black bigotry that goes, "blacks can't be racist..."?

In the South Bronx, American-born blacks reviled those lighter and darker than themselves, they reviled black immigrants from Africa and the Carribean for "acting white" (studying hard and not speaking in street slang).

Sadly, none of that is something "imposed on that ethnic group from the outside (ie. by whites)" - all that ethnic bigotry is all theirs...and far too many of them revel in it.

And too many of our urban poor feel "disadvantaged," and "trapped in poverty" despite the fact that they have it ten times easier than the rural poor in places like Appalachia, where the delivery systems for aid are not nearly as good and the opportunities for education and employment much harder to come by.

uptownsteve said...

JMK

Just as I figured.

You're an out and out racist who hangs around black righty blogs because you've found a gaggle of confused blacks who buy into your hate.

The fact of the matter is that black people have been the most color blind of voters, often giving our votes to white candidates over black challengers.

Jerry Brown, Martin O'Malley and Steve Cohen for instance are white politicians who won races in majority black districts or cities.

We've been giving our votes to white folks since we've had the right to vote.

I notice you didn't answer the question.

What black have YOU ever voted for.

The answer is ZERO and it will stay that way because you are just trying to rationalize your own hate by projecting on blacks who dare stand up to you.

And if blacks are more racist as you claim, why is it that when a black moves into a majority white, even if he is better educated and better salaried as is often the case, the "For Sale" signs go up immediately.

"n the South Bronx, American-born blacks reviled those lighter and darker than themselves, they reviled black immigrants from Africa and the Carribean for "acting white" (studying hard and not speaking in street slang)."

This is a pile of racist $hit.

If this is the case, how do we even have historically black colleges.

I grew up in the Bronx racist.

Went to catholic school and Dewitt Clinton HS. Many kids I knew got lost to the streets. But just as many of us didn't and went on to college, the military or civils service jobs.

I spoke proper English and went on to become a college grad.

No one ever accused me or any of my peers of "acting white".

That's just another racist fantasy.

Yeah buddy, keep playing with your black righty pets.

You're dealing a BLACK MAN now.

uptownsteve said...

"Because black liberals are merely the minions, footsoldiers if you will to advance the agenda of the liberal left."

Even though the President of the United States is a black liberal????

If anyone is being used it's you silly black right who still loudly and passionately proclaim your love for massa even though he practically calls you nigger to your face.

Did you read JMK's post?

Pathetic.

uptownsteve said...

"Of course not. So why do you think white liberals, the democrat party, liberal left love black folks by wanting them to remain dependent from cradle to grave on the goverment?"

This is just downright stupid.

Are you saying the majority of blacks are dependent on the government?????

CBW at last count the amount of people in the US receiving welfare was 5 million and most of them white.

WAKE UP my sister and stop repeating the garbage racists have fed you.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS you ask~"Even though the President of the United States is a black liberal????"

Unequivocally yes!!!!! He is the biggest minion ever. Which is why I refer to him as President SELECT Barack Obama.

Regarding my assertion that the left wants to keep blacks dependent from cradle to grave. I stand by that even though there are more white people on welfare. First of all we are a minority in this country so obviously their would be more whites on welfare.

You also ask:"Are you saying the majority of blacks are dependent on the government?????"

Of course I AM NOT saying that. I am saying that the majority of black vote democrat and that the democrat party does not have the interest of black people hell, or even poor people at heart. If they did they wouldn't encourage programs that keep people dependent.

I don't know why you can't conceive that a black rightie can just be a black rightie of their own fruition. It's such a flawed argument. Are you a liberal leftie because of your white liberal massa? That's what's stupid. Come on man, your own racial inferiority is showing.

Conservative Black Woman said...

I meant to say to UTS, your own feelings of racial inferiority are showing.

Anonymous said...

Uptown steve

"one black man tens of thousands of years ago"

xcuuuse me.. Jesus was a Hebrew, an Asiatic.. not an African in any sense of the word.. Rev. Wright is simply wrong to compare Jews and Rome with black people And white europeans.. no similarity in the historical story at all.. and Jesus was born TWO THOUSAND years ago, not tens of thousands of years.. the oldest human WRITING is only about six thousand years old.. Jesus was born during the reign of Augustus Caesar the adopted son of Julius Caesar while Rome had colonized Judea and Samaria..

Good grief you're an IDIOT.. speaking of things you know NOTHING about.. you can't hold a candle to CBW in matters of faith, intellect or historical knowledge.. read more, type less.

Dave P
Dallas

uptownsteve said...

"I am saying that the majority of black vote democrat and that the democrat party does not have the interest of black people hell, or even poor people at heart."

Please explain how the Repubs have the best interests of black folks, indeed AMERICANS, at heart and how that interest has manifested itself over most of the last 8 years when the GOP held total control over all 3 branches of the government????

"If they did they wouldn't encourage programs that keep people dependent."

Such as what?

Especially since the welfare rolls have been drastically cut over the last ten years.

JudyBright said...

Just sayin'

I've voted for Ken Blackwell multiple times for multiple high level posts in the state of Ohio, most recently for Governor.

So, someone please invalidate my votes or Blackwell's accomplishments for me.

And his most recent office, Secretary of State of one of the biggest states in the union is far above dog catcher.

uptownsteve said...

What's Blackwell doing these days?

ROTFLMBAO!!!!!!!!

uptownsteve said...

"I don't know why you can't conceive that a black rightie can just be a black rightie of their own fruition."

Because the conservatism is based on anti-black sentiment.

The engine that fueled the conservative movement over the last 40 years has been the race issue.

Anti-Civil Rights, Anti-Integration, Anti-Affirmative action.

It has been my experience (and I've conversed with many of you over the last 10 years) that black conservatives fall into 2 categories.

Hustlers and self-hating fools.

Natural fruition?

Hardly.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS~
"Anti-Civil Rights, Anti-Integration"

You clearly are unaware of the history of the democrat party.

Racism is bipartisan my friend. I doubt that it will ever go away because as I have said so many times before it is a condition of the human heart.

"Self-hating fool" hardly, but I understand that as a BQSPFRC you are incapable of going beyond that illogical twisted paradigm.

uptownsteve said...

"You clearly are unaware of the history of the democrat party."

I didn't say anything about political parties.

I'm talking about ideology and everyone of the founding fathers of modern conservatism, Buckley, Goldwater and Reagan were ANTI-CIVIL RIGHTS.

Why would any intelligent black person align themselves with a movement that sought to deny their very humanity?????

"Self-hating fool" hardly, but I understand that as a BQSPFRC you are incapable of going beyond that illogical twisted paradigm."

Show me where I'm wrong.

Say something positive about the black community.

You black conservatives can even force yourselves to do THAT.

Ask you to say something positive about America and you're ready to write a book.

Ask somebody like JMK to talk about the wonders of the white man and he'll yap for a week.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Say something positive about the black community."

UTS~I don't have to prove myself to you. I don't bash black people here. I do not post negative article about the goings on in the black community like black liberal sites do quite regularly. I don't feel a need to. I blog about that which is interesting to me from my perspective Religion & Politics.

But I tell you something postive about black people....Some of us are are brave enough to be Christian Conservatives in a hostile leftie world...How much more positive can you get than that?...lol

uptownsteve said...

"UTS~I don't have to prove myself to you"

ROTFLMBAO!!!!!!

I KNEW IT!!!!

As my grandmother would have said "You can't even fix your mouth" to utter a platitude about your fellow blacks.

The self-hatred is just too intense.

I find it very sad.

uptownsteve said...

"I don't bash black folks here."

Oh really?

"Too many of our families are broken, too many of us are morally degenerate and too many of us are willing to blame all of our pathology on slavery, George Bush, the Republican party or anything but our failures as Parents, Husbands, Wives and Christians."

If this isn't bashing and outright negrophobic crapola, I don't know what is.

Conservative Black Woman said...

" I don't know what is."

It's the TRUTH so there is no wonder that you don't know what it is. You are so blinded by your twisted, tortured, bitter, vile, vitriolic ideology that you are incapable of recognizing TRUTH when you are presented with it.

Let me ask you a question UTS. If you learn that you have cancer on your arm but that it hasn't spread and the prognosis is good if you treat it. What do you do? Ignore it or treat it? Do you hate yourself and the rest of your body because you treat the pathology that is growing on your arm?

uptownsteve said...

CBW

You poor misguided soul.

What you are doing is what white racists have done to blacks since we first got here.

You are holding the larger black community hostage to the failings of a distinct minority.

Endorsing and promoting stereotypes.

You a BLACK WOMAN, are actually promoting the idea that white society is perfect and black society is congenitally dysfunctional.

You're not telling any truths CBW but peddling racist garbage.

You keep talking about some cancer that's spreading through black America.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

The black middle class has never been larger.

There are more black college graduates, homeowners and professionals than any other time in this nation's history.

Until the recession started two years ago, black businesses were starting up at a higher rate than any other ethnic group.

When you come to middle class black communities like mine, you see safe clean streets, two parent households, well spoken well behaved children.

What is this cancer you speak of?

Do you black righties really believe that you are the only ones who believe in family, hard work, and playing by the rules????

That 90% of the rest of us are baby-droppin, welfare check collectin, crack smokin nine totin ghetto cretins???

How dare you!

Conservative Black Woman said...

I AM DOING NO SUCH THING & HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT I AM!!!!

I SAID TOO MANY NOT ALL!!! AND IT IS TOO DAMN MANY!!!!!

This 90% crap you are espousing is your very own. In all of the 180 blog post I have never quoted one statistic as it pertains to black folks and that is that 70% of black women are single.

So please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Let's deal with truth...shall we?

You just stay in your middle-class suburban paradise and bury you head in the sand. Young black men are being murdered on the streets of PG County, WDC, Baltimore and Philly because black folks are not parenting (or something) and you indict ME. What I am refraining from doing is "fixin" my mouth from cussing you out.

But I'm gonna just spew grace....and stop here.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Bleepin' typo: I meant to say I have quoted but one statistic.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Anonymous:

You wrote: "excuuuse me.. Jesus was a Hebrew, an Asiatic.. not an African in any sense of the word...."

O.K., that is the second intellectual fraudulent thing I have seen here today. Their are and were BLACK HEBREWS / JEWS, was Jesus one of them? Don't know, but it is possible. He could have well looked like one of my relatives in Ethiopia or Israel who are part of Beta Israel, so please get off it.

uptownsteve said...

"You just stay in your middle-class suburban paradise and bury you head in the sand. Young black men are being murdered on the streets of PG County, WDC, Baltimore and Philly because black folks are not parenting (or something) and you indict ME. What I am refraining from doing is "fixin" my mouth from cussing you out."

Aren't hispanic young men killing each other in the barrios of LA, NYC, Washington, DC and Chicago????

When white ethnics were the urban poor weren't their young men responsible for most of the violence in those enclaves???

What you keep trying identify as a "black" issue is a socio-economic one.

The fact that black middle class stable communities like mine exist is a testament to that.

I don't understand why that's so hard for you to see.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Aren't hispanic young men killing each other in the barrios of LA, NYC, Washington, DC and Chicago????

The name of this blog is the Conservative Black Woman not the Conservative Hispanic Woman. Quite naturally my concern is for my community. Why can't you get that?

The fact that black middle class stable communities like mine exist is a testament to that.
I don't understand why that's so hard for you to see.


I do get it...but that doesn't mean that their is still a big problem in our community!!!!

You can have the last word if you wish.Stick a fork in me I done. We are just going to have to agree to disagree, my friend.

JMK said...

"You're an out and out racist who hangs around black righty blogs because you've found a gaggle of confused blacks who buy into your hate...

"...What black have YOU ever voted for." (UTS)
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When did "voting for a black" become sort of litmus test for tolerance?

In fact, it isn't.

I DID vote for the Mayor in NYC that did the MOST for the black community there - Rudy Guiliani.

After the incompetent and hopelessly Liberal David Dinkins saw NYC's tax rates chase out thousands of businesses and jobs, while the crime rate soared - NYC's murder rate topped 2,000/year, the Guiliani administration came in and cleaned up the mess.

In his first term, his police commissioner (the great Bill Bratton) brought NYC's crime rate down to 1964 levels and the murder rate down under 500/year. Over that administration's eight year tenure, over 12,000 minority lives were saved by cutting that murder rate alone.

Seedy old Time Square made way for the current Disney themed Midtown area it remains today.

Welfare reform and workfare were ushered in and NYC's welfare rolls were cut FROM the over 1.2 MILLION high during the Dinkins tenure, to under 500,000 (it's currently under 400,000). Welfare reform put tens of thousands of poor New Yorkers of all backgrounds back to work, restoring their self-pride, while also eradicating tens of thousands of "double dippers" (people who'd collected welfare in multiple locales) from those rolls.

NYC went to the dogs under a Liberal (David Dinkins) just as it had under another incompetent liberal (John V Lindsey), just two decades earlier...and it was restored by, ironically enough, a Republican.
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"Went to catholic school and Dewitt Clinton HS. Many kids I knew got lost to the streets. But just as many of us didn't and went on to college, the military or civils service jobs." (UTS)
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I knew more guys growing up who were killed, than almost any inner city kid who lived in NYC in the 70s & 80s.

I repossessed cars in NYC and did a lot of work in those areas in the mid-1970s and early 1980s, punctuated with 28 months out of the country. Business was good and I had no more problems there than I did in places like Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, Riverdale in the Bronx and Staten Island.

So, I have no problem believing that the majority of the kids you grew up with "went on to college, the military or civils service jobs," which only proves MY point!

YOU have nothing to complain about! You have no rationale for harboring any animus toward whites or Conservative blacks other than your own ethnic and ideological bigotry.

The fact that you've gone on to live a middle class life proves that your "outrage" over Conservatism is rooted entirely in ethnic bigotry and what's more, you're too cowardly to acknowledge that....even to yourself. In truly "racist" places despised minorities are kept from jobs, owning property....or far worse (ie. Rwanda, where one group of ethnic bigots (the Hutus), slaughtered appx 700,000 members of a different ethnic group (the Tutsis) out of shear ehtnic bigotry.

My Dad's family came here at the start of the Civil War - 82% of the Union's forces were comprised of Irish-Americans. In that sense, "Irish-Americans freed America's blacks."

Those folks never asked for anything....and they didn't get much either, coming back to places like Boston and NYC, filled with "Irish and dogs need not apply" signs. They'd seen well-off, freed blacks (at the time of the Civil War nearly 20% of the blacks living in the U.S. had been freed and living, many of them prosperously in northern cities) buy their kid's way out of the Civil War in those cities ($300 got you a free pass from that conflict) and that, in part, helped precipitate the "Draft Riots," one of the uglier chapters in NYC's history.

And that ethnic hatred went on well into modern times. My Dad's father couldn't rise above dispatcher in NYC's private bus lines. The line used was "You need a Mason's (freemason's) ring to move up," which effectively barred Catholics (who weren't allowed to be freemasons advancement).

My Dad never asked for anything for his ancestor's mistreatment. He was more than happy that he wasn't mistreated the same way. His generation grew up in the Depression, fought in WW II and then many of his fellow NYC veterans became cops and firemen during the most tumultuous years of this century. Those guys were just happy to be able to take the same test as anyone else and control their own destiny's by how hard they worked and studied.

Jews, the same way....many Wall Street firms wouldn't hire Jews until the 1970s and there were many areas they weren't welcome to live and yet I've never heard any Jewish people asking for special treatment because of past generation's mistreatment.

Bottomline, liberal blacks supporting a Party that claims such things as, "Crime is rooted in poverty" (when in fact, it's the reverse - the same poor impulse control that leads one to crime, also leads inevitable to poverty), AND that "Blacks are "entitled to special treatment" (preferences) due to the suffering of past generations, is rooted in a very NON-benign self-interest that all too often crosses the line to outright ethnic bigotry.

THAT'S why liberal blacks will occasionally support even a white liberal, like Ben Cardin, over one of their own (Mike Steele) who has more common-sense, more decency and is right on most of the issues, because Cardin's Party keeps promising them "something for nothing," so long as they stay on that liberal plantation.

JMK said...

"Especially since the welfare rolls have been drastically cut over the last ten years." (UTS)
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And that's been the BEST thing to happen to America's poor in over a Century!

In NYC the welfare rolls dropped to 1/3 their previous highs (FROM 1.2 MILLION TO under 400,000), saving the city some $24 BILLION annually in dependancy costs.

The BULK of that drop came from eradicating "double dippers" (people who collected welfare in multiple localities), the rest from putting those capable back to work.

There's no debating the obvious success that has been welfare reform and workfare.
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"Because the conservatism is based on anti-black sentiment."

"The engine that fueled the conservative movement over the last 40 years has been the race issue - Anti-Civil Rights, Anti-Integration, Anti-Affirmative action." (UTS)
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"Anti-integration"?

No group is MORE anti-integration than today's liberal blacks - they self-segregate in College, at work and they do so deliberately, not out of any need or requirement.

The idiocy you spoke of, "for sale signs going up, once a few black families moved in," hasn't occurred since the early 1970s.

Today, a black dentist living in a predominantly white area is expected, due to income. On the block I live on, in fact, a black dentist does live across the street, he is, along with my wife and I, one of four non-Jewish households on that block....no for sales signs and they've lived there over 11 years.

"Anti-Civil Rights"?

There's NOTHING more anti-Civil Rights than race-based preferences that treat blacks as handicapped children.

Aside for the harm it does to that group, it also violates "equality of opportunity" a VERY BASIC "Civil Right" of ALL Americans - the right to compete based on the same standards (the same exams for all) and the same parameters (no separate standards or preferential treatment based on ethnicity).

My wife was born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica.

She was raised in poverty, but she was smart....did well in school, got a Chartered Accountancy (the English version of the CPA) came here and went back to College to get an American accounting degree and passed the four-part CPA exam.

While she laments the dirth of blacks in such professional fields, it can't be the tests (the CPA Exam, or the law Boards) that keep them out, as they didn't keep her out, it must be other factors.

And it doesn't seem to be any actual discrimination. My wife's changed jobs three times over the past fifteen years and has done well in every interview she's been on. She currently works at one of the Big Four Accounting firms, as a Manager, working to make Partner.

She often claims she's glad she didn't grow up here, where a sense of inferiority and deep racial resentments are encouraged in schools.

I don't know about the schools thing....there've been documented cases of schools in the South Bronx that went from predominantly black to predominantly Asian and the test scores, reading levels and College acceptance rates skyrocketed, so I don't think it's the schools alone....but there is something wrong.

uptownsteve said...

Yawn.

Dinkins balanced the budget and presided over twenty year lows in crime rates during his admninistration.

A white mayor with his accomplishments would have been reelected easily but Giuliani demogogued the Crowns Hts riot and frightened white folks into voting for him.

Keep in mind that a Jewish cab driver who exceeded the speed limit and ran a red light crashed into 2 black children and killed one. Yet on the suggestion of white policemen, a Jewish ambulance service whisked the cab driver away and left the children there to die.

"YOU have nothing to complain about! You have no rationale for harboring any animus toward whites or Conservative blacks other than your own ethnic and ideological bigotry."

What have you heard me complaining about?

I live better than most white folks and that' due to my hard work and talent.

I just don't racists and Uncle Toms.

"Those folks never asked for anything....

My Dad never asked for anything for his ancestor's mistreatment...

I've never heard any Jewish people asking for special treatment because of past generation's mistreatment."

Outside of the state of Israel???

But that's another issue.

Look all you are spewing is the run of the mill garden variety rightwing racist bull$hit propoganda.

Could you PLEASE tell me what "special treatment" black people are receiving??

We were the only group of people who were brought here in chains and had a special government sanction program erected (Jim Crow) specifically to keep us in second class status.

Is that what you mean by special treatment?

The majority of affirmative action beneficiaries were white women and white males are still the opverwhelming majority of corporate and government managers and CEOs.

I'm still wondering where all this "special treatment" for blacks is.

Resumes with "black sounding names" are routinely trashed and when equalkly blacks and whites interview for the same jobs the white is hired over 75% of the time.

You don't have friggin clue racist.

You just resent black protest and the fact that if a black yells back at you, all you can do is get mad.

Your white skin is no longer a government stamped badge of superiority and you feel that a right has been taken away from you.

Your supposed birthright of power and privilege as a white male is now challenged and you blame blacks and liberals.

Get over it or move to Australia.

They killed off most of the black folks over there.

You should feel right at home.

uptownsteve said...

"She often claims she's glad she didn't grow up here, where a sense of inferiority and deep racial resentments are encouraged in schools."

You just regurgitate all the crap you hear on Fox TV, doncha?

I grew up in NYC and as many of my peers and friends had parents who were from the West Indies as those of us whose parents or grandparents came from the American South.

They were no more hard working, industrious and racially proud than our people were.

Oh BTW, you do know that most Crown Hts rioters were Caribbean blacks, right?

uptownsteve said...

"The idiocy you spoke of, "for sale signs going up, once a few black families moved in," hasn't occurred since the early 1970s."

That's BULL$HIT.

It's going on right now in the next town over from me Crofton, MD.

JMK said...

"Dinkins balanced the budget and presided over twenty year lows in crime rates during his admninistration." (UTS)
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That is, as is usual for you, completely and utterly untrue, and I'll prove it.

Actually, "Dinkins became mayor with a $1.8 billion budget deficit when he entered office. He attempted to balance the budget and raised taxes. High oil prices due to the Gulf War and an overall downturn in the economy did not help the economic health of the city. 300,000 private sector jobs were further lost during Dinkins's administration, eroding the city’s tax base. His handling of the city's finances was criticized as being too beholden to unions and other lobbying groups. Investment was at an all time low.

"His integrity came under fire, as well as his efficacy. In response to his failure to file (or pay) income taxes for five years earlier in his career, Salon magazine later reported, Dinkins said, "I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law." (Yikes! What a dope!)

"In 1991, New York was unable to pay city employees. The Dinkins administration proposed unprecedented cuts in public services, $1 billion in tax increases and the elimination of 27,000 jobs. He cut education by $579 million, marked 10 homeless shelters for closing which was opposed by the city council.

The crime stats for his tenure are equally grim;

Murders in NYC stubbornly stayed above 2,000 during Dinkins star-crossed tenure:

1990 - 2605
1991 - 2571
1992 - 2397
1993 - 2420

As you can see, David Dinkins left office with a 5% uptick in murders, his last year in office.

1994 - 2,016
1995 - 1,550
1998 - 924


For overall violent crime;

David Dinkins presided over an 8% drop in overall violent crime;
1990 - 212,458
1991 - 210,184
1992 - 203,311
1993 - 195,352
A total drop of 17,000 violent crime, despite a record high murder rate.

Rudy Dropped violent crime by over 20,000 (175,433)...a 10% drop in his first year alone! They followed that up by dropping violent crime by another nearly 23,000 (13%) the following year.

The Guiliani administration nearly halved the Dinkins violent crime high by 1999 (107,147).

Dinkins was a woefully incompetent Mayor, and Guiliani came in and despite some personal flaws, improved NYC BOTH financially and public safety-wise.

I'm glad I was here to clear up the facts for you....AGAIN (debt & deficit ;-0)

Anyone can check out the Uniformed Crime Stats for themselves; http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm
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"Keep in mind that a Jewish cab driver who exceeded the speed limit and ran a red light crashed into 2 black children and killed one." (UTS)

So? That's grounds for a riot...and the subsequent pogrom against Jews there?

A Queens man was hit running across a Queens street last week and wound up hit and trapped under another vehicle (a van) that dragged the body for another 20 miles....no charges were filed against either driver.

WHY

Because it wasn't a crime.

And once again, your account of the Crown Heights riots differs from official reports; "At approximately 8:20 p.m. on August 19, 1991, Yosef Lifsh, 22, was driving a station wagon with three passengers west on President Street, part of the three-car motorcade of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson. The procession was led by an unmarked police car with two officers, with its rooftop light flashing. Lifsh's vehicle fell behind. He continued through the intersection at President Street and Utica Avenue in an attempt to rejoin the group. Witnesses could not agree upon Lifsh’s speed and could not agree whether the light that Lifsh went through was yellow or red. Lifsh’s vehicle struck a car being driven on Utica Avenue, veered onto the sidewalk, knocked a 600-pound stone building pillar down, hit a wall, and killed a seven-year-old Guyanese boy named Gavin Cato. His seven year old cousin Angela Cato, survived but was badly injured.

"Lifsh believed he had the right of way to proceed through the intersection because of the police escort. Lifsh said he deliberately steered his car away from adults on the sidewalk, toward the wall, a distance of about 25 yards (22.9 m), in order to stop the car. Lifsh later commented that the car did not come to a full stop upon impact with the building, but rather slid to the left along the wall until it reached the children.

"Accounts differ as to the next sequence of events. After the collision, Lifsh said that the first thing he did was to try to lift the car in order to free the two children beneath it. The EMS unit that arrived on the scene about three minutes after the accident said that Lifsh was being beaten and pulled out of the station wagon by three or four black men. All accounts agree that Lifsh was beaten before ambulances and police arrived.

"A volunteer ambulance from the Hatzolah ambulance corps arrived on the scene at about 8:23 pm followed shortly by police and a City ambulance which took Gavin Cato to Kings County Hospital, arriving at 8:32 p.m. Cato was pronounced dead shortly thereafter. Volunteers from a second Hatzolah ambulance helped Angela Cato, until a second City ambulance arrived and took her to the same hospital.

"Two attending police officers, as well as a technician from the City ambulance, directed the Hatzolah driver to remove Lifsh from the scene for his safety, while Gavin Cato was being removed from beneath the station wagon. According to the New York Times, more than 250 neighborhood residents, mostly black teenagers, many of whom were shouting "Jews! Jews! Jews!", jeered the driver of the car and then turned their anger on the police. Some members of the community were outraged because Lifsh was taken from the scene by a private ambulance service while city emergency workers were still trying to free the children who were pinned under the car."
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"Could you PLEASE tell me what "special treatment" black people are receiving??" (UTS)


Uhhhh, try the race-based preferences that have become "affirmative action."

In 1993, one NYPD Entrance Exam had three separate passing grades - 70 for whites and Asians, 65 for Hispanics and 60 for blacks.

That's treating blacks like they are handicapped children. They aren't, except maybe, to those liberals who vote for the people who see them that way.
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"You just resent black protest and the fact that if a black yells back at you, all you can do is get mad.' (UTS)


I've honestly never had a black person yell at me.

My wife doesn't need to yell, to make her points and outside, well, I'm a fairly persuasive fellow.
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"for sale signs going up, once a few black families moved in," hasn't occurred since the early 1970s. (JMK)

"That's BULL$HIT.

"It's going on right now in the next town over from me Crofton, MD."


Forgive my skepticism, but given your obvious errors on the failure of the Dinkins administration, the difference between debts and deficits and the Crown Heights riots, I just had to look up the demographics on Crofton, MD.

AND...

Well, according to the census of 2000, there were 20,091 people, 7,404 households, and 5,478 families residing in the Crofton ZIP code. The following data only includes census-listed figures for the Crofton ZIP code and excludes other data for Crofton-area residents.

The population density was 3,998.6 people per square mile (1,545.3/km²). There were 7,573 housing units at an average density of 1,507.2/sq mi (582.5/km²). The racial makeup of the community was 90.21% White, 5.13% African American, 0.23% Native American, 2.33% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 0.60% from other races, and 1.44% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.48% of the population.

According to a 2007 estimate, the median income for a household in the area was $93,198, and the median income for a family was $101,644.

Doesn't look like much "white flight," and while the non-white population of Crofton and Prince Georges County may increase in coming years, that's NOT at all indicative of earlier "white flight."

In NYC back in the 1970s such white flight was motivated virtually entirely by two factors (1) the first and most vital was schools - for better, or worse, schools became "poor performing schools when a large influx of African-Americans attended," the same has not been as pronounced when, say, Asians attend those same schools and (2) home valuations falling in the wake of illegal "block busting" by realtors, many of whom rationalized their actions by claiming they were merely trying to "expand living options for blacks."

The latter (block busting" is an extinct phenomenon, while the former (declining schools) still is a factor for residents of ALL ethnic backgrounds choosing to buy or leave various areas.

Why is that problem so intractable?

I really don't know and, quite frankly, that's a problem that folks like you and CBW must ultimately confront.

You seem to resent that CBW looks at things more honestly and doesn't seek to excuse and rationalize poor performance and bad behavior.

People with attitudes like hers are how such problems will be solved. They're the folks who'll support the likes of Michelle Rhee's (in D.C.) real education reforms.

Black Conservatives seem to look for solutions, while folks like yourself tend to look for grievances.

JMK said...

To clarify those murder stats'

In 1994, the Giuliani administration ciut that rate by over 400, to 2,016, lowering it even further, to 1,550 in 1995 and reduced to under 1,000 by 1998, when the annual murder rate for NYC dropped to 924.

JMK said...

CORRECTION: "As you can see, David Dinkins left office with a 1% uptick in murders, his last year in office. Murders remained in the mid-2000s (2400 - 2600)/annually throughout his tenure.

uptownsteve said...

Sigh.

"The Dinkins administration had balanced four budgets, to its credit, ... It was lowered by one point. It would be three or four years before Giuliani really got the budget under control. ... reducing crime and knew it would work, he wasn’t actually talking about his plan. ..."

The Dinkins administration had balanced four budgets, to its credit, ... It was lowered by one point. Symbolic, maybe. But still a tax cut. ... It would be three or four years before Giuliani really got the budget under control. ... reducing crime and knew it would work, he wasn’t actually talking about his plan. ...

http://nymag.com/anniversary/40th/50652/index3.html

Dinkins lowered crime.

"He himself has said it was MAYOR DINKINS' leadership that lowered crime, which is WHY Rudy hired DINKINS' guy, William Bratton to be ...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/rudy_the_crime_buster.html

I stand by my reading of the Crown Heights situation.

Why did the cops recommend the cab driver to be treated and not the gravely injure children?

Why did Giuliani award the family of Yankel Rosenbaum $1 million and absolutely NOTHING to the family of Gavin Cato, the dead toddler?

Care to answer that racist?

You're in total denial.

My workplace is a classic example of modern day segregation.

Our office is in the middle of Prince Georges County, the largest and most prosperous majority black jurisdiction in the country.

The only place where the median household income rose when it changed from majority white to majority black.

90% of the blacks that I work with live in Prince Georges County.
A couple live in Baltimore.

Not one white person I work with lives in the county.

They either live in neighborhood Anne Arundel (Crofton, Annapolis) or commute from friggin Virginia.

"Why is that problem so intractable?

I really don't know and, quite frankly, that's a problem that folks like you and CBW must ultimately confront."

Why just black folks?

Why don't you have to confront it as well?

Aren't we all Americans and have to share this country?

Are you actually saying that black folks have to make themselves acceptable to you?

uptownsteve said...

"Uhhhh, try the race-based preferences that have become "affirmative action."

In 1993, one NYPD Entrance Exam had three separate passing grades - 70 for whites and Asians, 65 for Hispanics and 60 for blacks."

1993 was 16 friggin years ago.

Does the NYPD still have same exam policy?

NO.

200 years of slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow.

25 years of AA and white folks screamed "We so oppressed".

AA has been virtually dismantled in school admissions (outlawed in 2 of the largest states TX and CA) and civil service exams.

But people like you can't let go of the issue because it allows you to play victim.

AA was a very modest program which helped people who had traditionally been locked out get in.

It never affected more than 10% of the black workforce or college students.

And once you're in it's all up to your ability to perform.

AA never did anyones job for them, never passed a test and completed assignments.

uptownsteve said...

"1994 - 2,016
1995 - 1,550
1998 - 924"

And if you check the nationwide crime statistics, you'll see that the decrease in NY is right in line with a decrease nationally in violent crime.

Washington, DC, under a black mayor and police chief experienced a similar decrease in violent crime.

In direct correlation with an unprecedented prosperous economy

But I don't see Anthony Williams being deified in the same way Giuliani is.

And those numbers have steadliy ticked back over the last 6 years

uptownsteve said...

"1994 - 2,016
1995 - 1,550
1998 - 924"

And if you check the nationwide crime statistics, you'll see that the decrease in NY is right in line with a decrease nationally in violent crime.

Washington, DC, under a black mayor and police chief experienced a similar decrease in violent crime.

In direct correlation with an unprecedented prosperous economy

But I don't see Anthony Williams being deified in the same way Giuliani is.

And those numbers have steadliy ticked back over the last 6 years

JMK said...

The numbers speak for themselves.

The murder rate during the entire Dinkins administration remained between 2400 and 2600 per year!

NYC lost thousands of jobs and businesses during that period and at one point, couldn't even pay its city workers.

That changed when Bratton took control of the NYPD and started off that administration's war on crime with this retort to the notorious "Squeegee men" (vagrants who hung out at highway off ramps around the city); "I say, get off the booze, get off the drugs and get a job!"

It's Bratton's policies that brought down crime and Giuliani's business-friendly policies that brought back jobs and prosperity to New York City.

David Dinkins was as woefully incompetent as John V Lindsey was two decades earlier.

JMK said...

"Why did Giuliani award the family of Yankel Rosenbaum $1 million and absolutely NOTHING to the family of Gavin Cato, the dead toddler?" UTS)
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Uhhhh, Giuliani didn't "award anyone" anything....a jury did nimrod. "The family of an Australian Jewish student who died after being stabbed during a New York race riot 14 years ago has been awarded $US1.25 million ($A1.62 million) by a US court." (http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Family-of-Aust-man-slain-in-riot-awarded-A162m/2005/06/19/1119119714174.html?from=moreStories), another jury awarded the Cato family $400,000.

"The city reached a $400,000 settlement with the family of the boy, Gavin Cato, in December 2001.

"In 1998, the Giuliani administration also announced that the city would pay $1.1 million to more than 80 Hasidic families to settle a lawsuit that charged that the city government had violated their constitutional rights." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9406EFDC153BF93BA25755C0A9639C8B63)

Juries found that (1) those rioters violated Yankel Rosenbaum's and other Jews' Civil Rights and (2) that the Dinkins administration failed in its basic requirement to protect those Civil Rights.

In fact, A Grand Jury composed of 10 African Americans, 8 Caucasians, and 5 Latinos found no cause to indict Lifsh (the driver who hit and killed Gavin and Angela Cato). Then District Attorney Charles J. Hynes explained that under New York law, the single act of "losing control of a car" is not criminal negligence even if death or injury resulted. Lifsh waived immunity and testified before the Grand Jury. About an hour after hearing Lifsh’s testimony, the grand jury voted not to indict Lifsh."

I have a question; when will UTS stop humiliating himself?

Uhhhhh, I guess when he finally stops posting things that are demonstrably untrue that give JMK the opening to drop actual facts and stats on those posts, proving them so wrong, so publically.

Help yourself out here UTS, stop posting maliciously, even racially-motivated erroneous stuff and I'll stop embarrassing you.

How's that?

JMK said...

"Our office is in the middle of Prince Georges County, the largest and most prosperous majority black jurisdiction in the country.

"The only place where the median household income rose when it changed from majority white to majority black.

"90% of the blacks that I work with live in Prince Georges County.
A couple live in Baltimore.


"Not one white person I work with lives in the county. (UTS)
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Once again, you claimed there was current "white flight" from Crofton, MD.....turns out that's not so.

SEE the stats I posted from that town's own demographic data.

Prince George's County is AGAIN, more proof of what I've been saying, today's middle class blacks have nothing to complain about....they WOULD IF they were living in anything like a "racist country."

As I correctly noted, "Block Busting" is a thing of the past.

Do people of ALL ethnic backgrounds make moves based on the quality of the schools in given areas?

Absolutely....and well they should. EVERYONE should have their children's futures as their highest priority.

Ironically enough, I found that one of the fastest growing areas in that region is Calvert County, MD and its population is the fastest-growing in Maryland.

Today, blacks make up 12 percent of the population -- down from 22 percent in 1980. The percentage of white residents has risen from 63 percent in 1970 to 77 percent in 1980, to almost 86 percent today.

There are always a host of reasons why people move. Calvery County had been a predominantly black enclave until a couple decades ago.

Things change, race and "racism" are rarely the reason.

JMK said...

"And if you check the nationwide crime statistics, you'll see that the decrease in NY is right in line with a decrease nationally in violent crime." (UTS)
<
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AND....once again, you'd be wrong.

FBI CRIME STATISTICS FOR CALENDAR YEAR 2000 SHOW DROP IN NEW YORK CITY CRIME RATE BUCKS NATIONAL TREND

New York City Ranks 163rd in Crime out of 215 American Cities

Violent Crime Up Slightly Nationwide, Down 4.1% in New York City

"Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani today congratulated...the men and women of the New York City Police Department, and community members for continuing to reduce crime in New York City while bucking the national trend.

"New crime statistics released today by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in its Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program show that the nationwide total index crime rate remained flat in 2000 compared to 1999, while New York City's crime rate dropped another 3.7% from 1999. New York City's drop in crime also exceeded the 2.4% crime reduction in the Northeast in 2000.

"New York City has once again succeeded in bringing crime down further despite skeptics who claimed New York's crime rate had bottomed out," the Mayor said. "This data provides more compelling evidence that New York City's innovative approach to crime reduction continues to yield dramatic gains, even as the national trend levels off. The men and women of the NYPD, and all of their partners in the community, deserve praise for leading the nation in the fight against crime."

"Among the 215 American cities with populations over 100,000, New York City ranks 163rd in total crime and ranks 23 out of the 25 largest cities in America."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2001a/pr181-01.html

JMK said...

"Does the NYPD still have same exam policy?

"NO.

"200 years of slavery and 100 years of Jim Crow.

"25 years of AA and white folks screamed "We so oppressed".
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Well, it's been about 40 yrs (1971), but who's counting? Moreover, there's hundreds, thousands of such examples and the point is that such preferences cripple blacks, making them less able to compete after having been held to lower standards and expectations.

When I first got on the FDNY, I worked with a black Battalion Chief, named R Julius....GREAT guy and he opposed race-based preferences for the very same reasons that I do.

BC Julius never got a preference, he passed every exam he took, but he noticed that once racial preferences came into the Dept, black test scores went DOWN!

Worse still, for Chief Julius was the stigma of "perceived incompetence." He felt lumped in with all those guys "who failed the tests and still got promoted 'on the arm', so to speak."

People like me don't usually suffer from such preferences - I scored a 100% on the written part of the FDNY Entrance exam and 100% on the physical....I've always taken exams well.

I don't like the violation of equality of opportunity in the name of "equality" this "remedy" delivers. I don't like the idea of using discrimination to remedy past discrimination, as it only begets even more discrimination down the line. And I don't like the negative impact it's had on blacks.
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"AA has been virtually dismantled in school admissions (outlawed in 2 of the largest states TX and CA) and civil service exams."
<
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Michigan too....and good for them. That's good for ALL people black and white.

We engage in way too much "social engineering" in the name of proportionalism. Asians are 60% of the engineering classes in many major Universities because they've EARNED those spots.

Such disproportionate results harm no one. Giving other groups crutches that they don't need and that will cripple them further down the road, is NOT the way to address those discrepancies.

JMK said...

"And those numbers have steadliy ticked back over the last 6 years." (UTS)
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I know, this is getting waaaay too predictable, but....WRONG AGAIN;

"Violent crime in New York City has decreased in the last twelve years and the murder rate in 2005 was at its lowest level since 1963. Crime rates spiked in the 1980s and early 1990s as the crack epidemic hit the city. During the 1990s the New York City Police Department (NYPD) adopted CompStat, broken windows policing and other strategies in a major effort to reduce crime. The city's dramatic drop in crime has been attributed by criminologists to these policing tactics, the end of the crack epidemic and demographic changes.

As an example, in 2005 one local editorial noted, "After a banner year that saw the overall crime rate drop 6.7 percent and the murder rate plunge 17.2 percent in 2005..." in decrying the NYPD's cutting it's OT budget.

Nope, so far, so good.

JMK said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JMK said...

CORRECTIONS:

"A Grand Jury composed of 10 African Americans, 8 Caucasians, and 5 Latinos found no cause to indict Lifsh (the driver who hit Gavin and Angela Cato, killing Gavin). Then District Attorney Charles J. Hynes explained that under New York law, the single act of "losing control of a car" is not criminal negligence even if death or injury resulted.

AND

"There are always a host of reasons why people move. Calvert County had been a predominantly black enclave until about a half century ago.

uptownsteve said...

My God, you're not only a racist but a liar as well.

New York City made a settlement with the Rosenbaum family after prodding and demogoging by Giuliani.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A02E1D7163AF931A35757C0A96E958260&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FR%2FRosenbaum%2C%20Yankel

uptownsteve said...

What did the racist say about embarassing someone.

Homicides in America 1989-2006

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

1989 21,500
1990 23,440
1991 24,700
1992 23,760
1993 24,530
1994 23,330
1995 21,610
1996 19,650
1997 18,208
1998 16,914
2000 15,522
2001 15,586
2002 16,037
2003 16,229
2004 16,528
2005 16,740
2006 17,030

JMK said...

"New York City made a settlement with the Rosenbaum family after prodding and demogoging by Giuliani." (UTS)
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That was a JURY award and a sensible one....and I generally don't sympathize with Civil litigants in our overly litigious society.

In that case Mr. Rosenbaum's civil rights were egregiously abridged by a mob and the Mayor at that time (David Dinkins) held the police back for 3 days.

JURY award, not a "Giuliani award."

And you've ignored your a-hem "mis-statement" about the Cato family's civil judgment....AND the Grand Jury (comprised of 10 African Americans, 8 Caucasians, and 5 Latinos) finding "no cause" to indict the driver, Mr. Lifsh.

Apparently you've been misinformed on certain things.
<
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As to those crime rates, AGAIN, you seem to be misinformed.

There's nothing in the stats you posted that contradict;

FBI CRIME STATISTICS FOR CALENDAR YEAR 2000 SHOW DROP IN NEW YORK CITY CRIME RATE BUCKS NATIONAL TREND

New York City Ranks 163rd in Crime out of 215 American Cities

Violent Crime Up Slightly Nationwide, Down 4.1% in New York City

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2001a/pr181-01.html

Notice the date of the article (2001)....indeed, crime nationwide went up "slightly" as that message claimed - (15,586 is "slightly" LARGER than 15,522), while NYC's continued to DECREASE.

In fact, crime went up nationwide in each of the subsequent years, rising from that 15,586 in 2001 to over 17,000 in 2006.

NYC's crime rate fell during that period as well and they're still using the Comp Stat program that Bratton brought in.

You know what's a good idea, NOT posting things that actually SUPPORT your opponent's claims.

Just a tip for future reference.

uptownsteve said...

God you're pathetic.

Show me anywhere in this piece where it states that this settlement went before a jury.

"http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A02E1D7163AF931A35757C0A96E958260&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FPeople%2FR%2FRosenbaum%2C%20Yankel"

This was Giuliani's settlement all the way.

JMK said...

It was settled in COURT....before a judge....same way the Cato suit was settled - in COURT.

There was no way the city of NY was going to win in that lawsuit.

A Brooklyn jury had just sentenced Rosenbaum's murderer (Lemrick Nelson) to 20 years....an accomplice Mr. Price had been convicted of "inciting to riot."

Dinkins had held Police back for 3 days....a disastrous move that, instead of making him look like a "peace-maker" made him appear an appeaser to the rioters at best and a co-conspirator, at worst.

The City settled the Rosenbaum case for a fraction of what any NY jury would've awarded and saved David Dinkins further public humiliation in the process.

I sympathize that this has been a tough week for you - confusing the National DEBT with the budget DEFICIT, posting a set of crime stats that show that crime nationwide, DID go up after 2000, while it went down in NYC, to arguing that block-busting and "white flight from areas when blacks move in (that ended in the early 1970s) still goes on....next I almost expect you to claim that Jews fled from Crown Heights in the wake of the riots. (just kidding...please don't suggest that, as it too, would be wrong) - but it's not my fault that you keep posting opinions as facts, and those opinions so consistently turn out to be wrong.

JMK said...

While I don't mean to belabor this point, what happened to your assertion that crime went down nationwide, accounting for NYC's downturn in criminalisty?

Your own posted stats proved you wrong.

Violent Crime Up Slightly Nationwide, Down 4.1% in New York City

http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2001a/pr181-01.html

Notice the date of the article (2001)....indeed, crime nationwide went up "slightly" as that message claimed - (15,586 is "slightly" LARGER than 15,522), while NYC's continued to DECREASE.

In fact, crime went up nationwide in each of the subsequent years, rising from that 15,586 in 2001 to over 17,000 in 2006.

By 2005, NYC celebrated a crime rate that had been reduced to 1964 levels, for the first time since those halcyon days.

uptownsteve said...

Sigh

NYC Crime increases

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080404/FREE/442011882/1057/newsletter01

JMK said...

“Sigh

“NYC Crime increases” (UTS)
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“Murders jumped 24.7% to 111 from 89 during the first three months of 2007” (Cranes 4/2008)

So it does...but what does that have to do with YOUR factual errors on this subject?

We were discussing Dinkins vs Giuliani...and YOU first claimed that, “Dinkins...presided over twenty year lows in crime rates during his admninistration." (UTS)

That is absolutely untrue.

The overall crime index remained fairly constant throughout his administration, dropping modestly overall, though even at the end of his administration it was higher than 1985’s, and very close to the very high levels of the mid-to-late 1970s (1975 – 1979), and the murder rate stayed between 2400 and 2600 per year throughout his tenure, the four HIGHEST years over the 20 year period between 1973 and 1993 and violent crime overall, while it dropped about 8% over his tenure, his last year (1993) had a violent crime index (195,352) that was higher than all but two of the previous 20 years!

Dinkins’ did not do a credible job reducing crime. In fact, it was a terrible four years for crime in NYC.

You then retreated a bit to claim, “Dinkins lowered crime.

"He (Giuliani) himself has said it was MAYOR DINKINS' leadership that lowered crime, which is WHY Rudy hired DINKINS' guy, William Bratton to be ...” (UTS)

Again, the crime stats don’t bear your first claim out.

The second claim is absurd, as “Dinkins’ guy” was Ray Kelly (the current NYPD Police Commissioner) NOT Bill Bratton, the man Rudy Giuliani tabbed back in 1994. Perhaps you were a might confused there. After all, 1994 was awhile back and all.

At any rate, it was Bill Bratton’s CompStat program that is credited with drastically reducing crime (especially violent crime) in NYC.

Finally you said, “And if you check the nationwide crime statistics, you'll see that the decrease in NY is right in line with a decrease nationally in violent crime.”

Which AGAIN, is (not surprisingly, at this point) NOT TRUE as the uniform crime stats (UCS) bear my point out. The UCS backs up the claim that the Guiliani administration made in 2001, FBI CRIME STATISTICS FOR CALENDAR YEAR 2000 SHOW DROP IN NEW YORK CITY CRIME RATE BUCKS NATIONAL TREND... Violent Crime Up Slightly Nationwide, Down 4.1% in New York City.

Crime in all categories in NYC declined through 2006!

So, the Giuliani administration's claim was about crime trends during that administration, where as noted, NYC’s decline both outpaced the rest of the nation’s AND even dropped 4.1% when the rest of the nation registered a slight uptick...CONTRARY to what YOU had claimed!

And now you post an article about 2007’s crime rates?!

To show what?

It only returns attention to your earlier inaccuracies. Why do THAT?!

The Crane’s article makes sense in that I recently read an article that said the Bloomberg administration is "returning to the CompStat program initiated by Bill Bratton and has beat cops going after “quality of life” crimes."

Many here, were unaware they’d moved away from that, in which case that article seems to offer conclusive proof that it was Bratton’s introducing the CompStat program to NYC that dropped the crime rates so drastically. Again, contrary to what YOU had claimed.

I hate to bring up yet another error of yours, but you also said, “I stand by my reading of the Crown Heights situation.

“Why did the cops recommend the cab driver to be treated and not the gravely injure children?” (UTS)

Again, the Official report states: "A volunteer ambulance from the Hatzolah ambulance corps arrived on the scene at about 8:23 pm followed shortly by police and a City ambulance which took Gavin Cato to Kings County Hospital, arriving at 8:32 p.m. Cato was pronounced dead shortly thereafter. Volunteers from a second Hatzolah ambulance helped Angela Cato, until a second City ambulance arrived and took her to the same hospital.

"Two attending police officers, as well as a technician from the City ambulance, directed the Hatzolah driver to remove Lifsh from the scene for his safety, while Gavin Cato was being removed from beneath the station wagon.”

Why do you keep doing this to yourself?

You’re NOT helping yourself by piling error upon error.

I'm working on-sire over the next 48 hours (starting Wed AM)...I'm almost going to miss these madcap antics of yours.

You don't often have you facts straight, you don't seem to know the difference between DEBTS and DEFICITS, or between "the ECONOMY" and "an ECONOMIC CRISIS", but you're certainly shameless and relentless...."Let the facts be damned" should be your motto.