Anybody with half a brain knows that PSBO did not write the stimulus bill (I doubt seriously if he even read it) So, naturally I don't think it was a racist attack against him. Why would I think that....I don't think he is a chimp. I don't see a chimp looking in the mirror back at me in the mirror so why praytell would that be my first thought regarding this cartoon? Racism chasers, however, of course they will see racism. Maybe they think of themselves as highly evolved chimpanzees or maybe they just think white folks lie awake at night thinking of ways to malign black people...who knows. Liberal white folks may see racism but what do they know? They are so punked by racism chasers that they "pretend" to see "human" not color. White folks who are racist are probably amused by the cartoon and do think of PSBO as a chimp. So, I guess the cartoon is open to interpretation because racism is in the eye of the beholder.
91 comments:
CBW, usually I would agree but I think this is over the top.
Political cartoons have been around since before this country was founded but it is protected under the 1st Amendment.
I think this cartoon is referring to the crazy chimp that attacked his owner's friend and had to be shot by the police. Whether the author was referring to Obama, I don't know but it doesn't look that way to me.
wow...just...wow...
I was breathlessly asked by my staff before I could get my coat off this morning what I thought about the cartoon.
Consciously I don't think the cartoonist was saying that Barack was a monkey. However, all of the ills that plagues us as humans; misogyny, white supremacy, homophobia, xenophobia and internalized racism or mental colonialism ('sup, Zabeth?) exist in the subconscious and can come out inappropriately. There are a million jokes the cartoonist could have penned in the balloon dealing with the issue of the 'mad' chimp. There are a million cartoons he could have done to make a statement about the stimulus package. Putting a dead chip and attaching 'stimulus' package in the same frame - not such a good idea. I know that I'm not a sexist, but if I walk in to a women's shelter and tell rape jokes or talk about goin' up side somebody's head and they happen to be a woman, then that is sexist or misogynist behavior manifesting itself from my conditioning as a man brought up under patriarchy and choosing not to be aware of my surroundings or who I may hurt. In that case, I need to be accountable and in the case of the Post, THEY need to be accountable; especially the editor who ok'd the cartoon and the artist who drew it.
That cool JudyBright said..
"I think this cartoon is referring to the crazy chimp that attacked his owner's friend and had to be shot by the police. Whether the author was referring to Obama, I don't know but it doesn't look that way to me."
I would like to think that I have technicolor wings and when I fly, I'm fueled by jets of methane flatulence that smells like fresh-baked cookies and lime skittles. Life is what you wish it will be I guess...
So then I guess the object lesson here is Never, Never, Never tell a monkey or chimp joke around a black person because it reveals some sort of latent racism within your subconscious. Well, then that works both ways. Black folks must latently perceive themselves as "monkey-esque" or "chimpish".
I see why folks are hesitant to talk about race. It's impossible to do such a thing honestly because if you are black and you do so then you are "self-hating" and if you are white and you do so then you are "a racist"....
When will this end. When? How can it end if folk's liver's quiver because of a stupid monkey picture. And where was the outcry from Rev. Al Sharpton when Bush was labeled a "chimp"...oh, that doesn't count because there is not subconscious connection of white people as monkey's.
These hypocritical black righties saw nothing but racism in a cartoon drawing of Condoleeza Rice as Bush's parrot but see no racism here.
Could you please answer this for me?
What does a monkey have to do with the stimulus bill?
Didn't you people see the scores of t-shirts and cartoons during the campaign depicting Obama as Curious George?
http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/14/racist-obama-t-shirts-for-sale-curious-george
Are you blind?
brotherkomrade,
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
"These hypocritical black righties saw nothing but racism in a cartoon drawing of Condoleeza Rice as Bush's parrot but see no racism here."
Maybe, but I personally don't remember the cartoon you are referring too.
"What does a monkey have to do with the stimulus bill?"
The stimulus bill is so Stupid that a chimp could have written it...btw, everyone knows with the exception of those suffering from Obamalism knows that PSBO didn't write that bill!!!! The bill was written by Pelosi and Reid.
"http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/14/racist-obama-t-shirts-for-sale-curious-george
Are you blind?
I think this shirt is offensive yes, racist....but everytime I see a monkey I don't see black people...Do you? Therefore every dipiction of a monkey is not offensive to me. What is it called when Bush is portrayed as a monkey is that racism too?
I think a major difference between the cartoons is that Rice was actually in the cartoon in question, and Obama doesn't even appear here.
I didn't see the cartoon you're talking about either, which that fact in itself probably makes me evil.
The hypocrisy likely was with liberals who think it's ok to make fun of a black conservative, but racist to make fun of a black liberal.
Whatcha think??
CBW,
You have no knowledge whatsoever of the time honored racist practice of comparing black people to simians???
And the fact of the matter is that Bush did look like a chimpanzee.
http://www.bushorchimp.com/
Obama doesn't.
Did I ever express props to you, uptown steve? Well I'm throwing my fist up, bro. See you at the Take Down AmeriKKKa meeting next Tuesday.
"The hypocrisy likely was with liberals who think it's ok to make fun of a black conservative, but racist to make fun of a black liberal.
Whatcha think??"
I think that was brilliant Judy...We really need to get those T-shirts!!!lol
Well,UptownSteve....Bush looks like a chimp...that's rather subjective wouldn't you say. What if someone were to say that Obama looks like Curious George? That makes it ok to depict him as such?
If Condi (who I have always had a slight crush on, btw) was depicted as an ape for Bush, I would have been just as angry. The depiction of her as a parrot - it's METAPHOR for the truth; she was a parrot. That's not racism, that's just the truth.
Racial imagery 101: black people have always been portrayed as apes in every racist, public depiction prior to the creation of the NAACP. History and deconstructionism people. They can be good friends.
hi cbw. i am SOOO not interested in a debate about this. so i'll just note for the record that i couldn't agree with your post more on this. it's almost comical how easy it is to get the racism-chasers to jump up and down like marionettes.
brotherkomrade
Where is the "Take down AmeriKKA" rally going to be?
"brotherkomrade
Where is the "Take down AmeriKKA" rally going to be?"
Oh, that's at a later date when, "Brother O" hands down the mandate.
[wink, wink]
CBW, as you deftly pointed out, the chimp really represents Congress. Obama takes credit for the stimulus bill, and he deserves all the blame for the problems it will cause, but Congress WROTE the bill.
The law is an ass, congress is a chimp, Obama is a chump...whatever...
The Condoleezza Rice cartoon was hateful and disgusting whether you look at it from a racial angle or not:
http://tinyurl.com/bjdjom
@Brother, I'm not sure why you want to call me out here, but whatever.
I guess racism is in the eye of the beholder as it looks like I am the only black conservative who does find this cartoon racist. Why else have a chimp depicted in the cartoon? Was it at all necessary to make the point? Especially now that we have a black president and considering that blacks have traditionally been depicted as monkeys and apes. Was it meant to be purposely controversial to garner some attention? I'm sure the cartoonist knew he would get a certain reaction.
Furthermore, I don't believe to myself to be a racism chaser and I respect that people will view this cartoon in different ways.
CBW - I don't think that "racism is in the eye of the beholder".
It is more correct to say "Those who see an opportunity to RACISM CHASE" if it can achieve the trifecta of:
* Attacking a Conservative adversary
* Defend a massive spending bill that they support
* Defend the "Black Guy" president that they have vowed to obtain their own "change" through
they are going to hop on it.
Roland Martin said something to the effect of - Where as this might have passed with Bush as the President....since BLACK PEOPLE have been referred to as monkeys it is out of bounds to make use of this imagery involving a Black president.
Thus the most powerful man in the world has an inferiority to him.
Get this folks - When Obama ran against former Black Panther Bobby Rush - Rush and other members of the Black Establishment in Chicago dismissed Barack Obama because he was both bi-racial and was raised largely outside of the United States thus HE WAS NOT RAISED IN THE the "African American slave tradition".
NOW the Racism Chasers seek to bathe Obama in this same tradition because they are living their lives vicariously through him.
[quote]I was breathlessly asked by my staff before I could get my coat off this morning what I thought about the cartoon.[/quote]
Brother Former Marxist HAS A STAFF????
Do all of your employees receive a LIVING WAGE?
Better yet - have you personally advocated for a FLAT COMPENSATION SYSTEM?
Better yet - have you fought to have a payment system in which people are paid based on their NEEDS rather than their ability to secure capital resources for the firm?
Conservative Black Woman:
On one of the blogs that Steve was banned on I joked about him last year, saying:
If he were walking down the street and looked back and saw a group of 4 White men walking behind him he would take note.
Upon taking a few more steps Steve heard them call out "Somebody stop that monkey!!!!"....Steve would immediately take off running, figuring that they were coming after him.
Unbeknown to Steve - he was walking past a pet store and indeed a MONKEY HAD ESCAPED and was jumping across the awnings.
Steve and some other Black people who try hard to project their own INSECURITIES upon the entire Black race have heightened sensibilities in their RACISM CHASING senses. (Kinda like "Spidey Sense").
Unconstructive Scumbag:
Yes
Yes
and Yes.
"Steve and some other Black people who try hard to project their own INSECURITIES upon the entire Black race have heightened sensibilities in their RACISM CHASING senses."
Yes and Amen CF! This is exactly to point I was trying to make.
@ zabeth - I was just hollering and 'saying what's up'.
I'm sure you were.
I'm a friendly and cordial guy like that. MY boss, family, and friends often comment on my sunny disposition and general love my fellow human; even ideological opponents. Ask my boy, Ronald Barr.
"Steve and some other Black people who try hard to project their own INSECURITIES upon the entire Black race have heightened sensibilities in their RACISM CHASING senses. (Kinda like "Spidey Sense")."
Whereas a white racist could put his foot all the way up your a$$ on the corner of 42nd and Broadway at high noon and all you'd do is smile sheepishly and say "Dats okay boss, ma butt do resemble a foot stool."
I have little doubt that in the mind of Brother Former Marxist that THIS is a well reasoned comparison:
[quote] There are a million jokes the cartoonist could have penned in the balloon dealing with the issue of the 'mad' chimp. There are a million cartoons he could have done to make a statement about the stimulus package. Putting a dead chip and attaching 'stimulus' package in the same frame - not such a good idea. I know that I'm not a sexist, but if I walk in to a women's shelter and tell rape jokes or talk about goin' up side somebody's head and they happen to be a woman, then that is sexist or misogynist behavior manifesting itself from my conditioning as a man brought up under patriarchy and choosing not to be aware of my surroundings or who I may hurt.[/quote]
Let's sum it all up Brother Former Marxist:
YOU as a Black man has a bit of inferiority that is inbred in you in which you are sensitive to being called a MONKEY because Blacks have been called monkeys by racist Whites.
Thus we are to expect the White cartoonist who drew this piece to run through a filter in which he considers the offense taken to Black people if he draws a monkey during the time when there is a Black president in office.
Here is how I rationalize all of this:
1) If there was a WHITE PRESIDENT in office now - would the cartoon have been drawn (assuming that both the stimulus package and the chimp were in the news?)
2) It there was an elephant that went wild rather than a chimp would the cartoonist have used the ANIMAL that was in the news?
3) Is there any sign linking the chimp to Obama? (A "Hope" t-shirt? A face drawn in the likeness of Obama on the chimp? )
All of these test FAIL.
What we are left to cope with is the one thing that on one can take away from neither a crash victim with a diagnosis from his Chiropractor OR a Black Democrat feigning outrage -
the SYMBOLISM that is in his own mind that no one can take away from him only CHALLENGE the logic of how he came to this point of reasoning.
Frank J at IMAO said it best, “The NY Post put up this cartoon, and the obvious implication is that the stimulus bill is so horrible it could have been written by a crazed, face-eating monkey. Now, that’s not entirely accurate, as a crazed, face-eating monkey does not have enough wits about it to use a national economic crisis to get pork projects for its district, but still I see the comparison.
Liberals, though, see something different though. Apparently, when they see a crazed, face-eating monkey — no matter the context — the first thing they think of is the current president. Why? Because he’s black, and apparently liberals think black people are just a step away from being crazed, face-eating monkeys.”
Enough said.
"Anyways, as a Christian and Conservative, I have to be honest...I think this cartoon is in bad taste..." (anonymous)
<
<
It certainly IS "in bad taste," as it makes fun of a horrific incident that put a woman in the ICU in very critical condition, probably in need of massive facial reconstruction, if not a full facial transplant.
"Racist?"
Nope, not UNLESS the reader sees any image of a monkey as mocking black people.
(N.B. ALL humans are primates, NONE are chimps)
Of course, such a condition would probably require a fair amount of psychotherapy, coupled, perhaps with massive doses of psychotropic drugs.
If anything, that crazed, face-eating chimp probably could've done a better job writing the current stimulus Bill then the likes of Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi, as THEY are chief among those who actually WROTE that Bill.
President Obama tried to get parts of it amended and was gruffly rebuffed by Barney Frank.
The tagline is "Find someone else to write the next stimulus Bill?"
Obama didn't write THIS one!
Like I said, those who see this as mocking Obama, make that woman who got her face mauled off seem lucky.
After all, SHE only needs a face transplant, the nitwits who don't understand who wrote the stimulus Bill and take ANY monkey image as mocking black people, need full brain transplants.
I think they're harder to come by.
Devon,
all marxist, socialists and cmmies I've ever known work and work real jobs. What do you do scum bag?
I just knew charges of some 'ism' was going to start all over again when Ron whats his name mentioned the word 'racism' on tv yesterday, and I was wondering what was going to be the spark that brought old Al out of hiding.
Its all a book/play/movie we've seen before, and also know how it ends.
Give me a break, my peeps, and don't be distracted so easily.
Sorry about that, the Ron whats its name I was talking about is Eric Holder.
Thank you Devon from Canada! I am gaining strength from on your words of encouragement today.
Bush was constantly called a "chimp" for 8 years. Obama was called the N word by Jesse Jackson. Al Sharpton said Obama wasn't "black enough" or "authentic". The black liberal editor of the LA Times called Obama "The Magic Negro". Condi Rice was depicted in a Ted Rall comic strip as Bush's "House Nigga". Michael Steele was depicted as a "simple sambo" on many kooky left blogs. Do you want to know what all of these examples have in common? Liberals never protested outrage or condemnation over ANY OF THEM. So for them to be upset over a comic strip that is not even about Obama is a pathetic joke. It's all about "selective outrage" and nothing more.
"So then I guess the object lesson here is Never, Never, Never tell a monkey or chimp joke around a black person because it reveals some sort of latent racism within your subconscious."
Uhm...yep.
Indeed CBW, be encouraged...
'brother' komraden....I work for a magazine here in Southern Alberta...and imagine this, we are private and we actually make our own way...no govt. lazy job for me...
Ha ha ha...
Darn my typos. I meant to say monkey.
BYTCH PLEASE WITH YOUR BULLSHYT SIGHT & you so called black conservatives...may hard times fall on all yall mafuccas so ytou can feel the pain of those lefties or should I say other black folk
The person who left the above comment is a pitiful example of the pathology that has beset the psyche of black minds...what a terrible waste.
My views on the matter:
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/02/monkey-business-reply-to-my-frat.html
Stop falling for the Okey Doke of feigned outrage.
(The left are now enumerating a list of Rupert Murdoch assets to go after. They don't realize that their White Cousins had the same mob mentality before burning down everything that Black people owned because of some perceived slight of a White woman. We need to start INSPECTING the benefits that the mob has brought to our community instead of allowing them to SET THE AGENDA based on OUTRAGE)
Comments?
Corrections?
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/02/of-pigs-and-chimps-feigned-outrage-used.html
CF, You nailed it! As usual.
"The person who left the above comment is a pitiful example of the pathology that has beset the psyche of black minds."
What are you CBW, a cablinasian?
CBW, you're exactly right about the double standard -- Bush was relentlessly pictured as a chimp, but nobody on the left protested.
I wrote about Sharpton today, then found you in a search for black conservatives. I've got you in my bookmarks now.
@Kirk:
"CBW, you're exactly right about the double standard -- Bush was relentlessly pictured as a chimp, but nobody on the left protested."
Intellectually fraudulent prattle. Anyone with a cursory understanding of US History would know that Whites were never racially insulted by monkey caricatures.
Say it wasn’t “racist” if you must, but don’t insult people’s intelligence with that inane lunacy.
@uptownsteve, you wrote:
And the fact of the matter is that Bush did look like a chimpanzee.
I've never met you and have no idea what you look like or what race you are. (After reading more of the comments, I now infer that you are black.) But let's say, just hypothetically, that your face bears some superficial resemblance to... I dunno... a rat. Would that make it OK for me to wave a hunk of cheese in your face and make mousetrap jokes?
The T-Shirt you linked to on Crooks & Liars was, in fact, intentionally racist and offensive. But hold that against the guy who made the shirt, don't hold it against all conservatives. I always tell my liberal friends, don't blame me for Ann Coulter and I won't blame you for Michael Moore.
@CBW, you wrote:
So then I guess the object lesson here is Never, Never, Never tell a monkey or chimp joke around a black person because it reveals some sort of latent racism within your subconscious.
As a white guy, that is, in fact, the lesson I have drawn from this controversy. Actually, let me restate it slightly: Maybe nobody should compare anybody to a lower primate.
@DJ Black Adam, you wrote:
Intellectually fraudulent prattle. Anyone with a cursory understanding of US History would know that Whites were never racially insulted by monkey caricatures.
One does not need to have even a cursory understanding of US History to know that it is an insult to compare ANYONE to a lower primate.
Kirk Petersen
"I've never met you and have no idea what you look like or what race you are. (After reading more of the comments, I now infer that you are black.)"
Take my word for it, I'm a Nubian God.
"But let's say, just hypothetically, that your face bears some superficial resemblance to... I dunno... a rat. Would that make it OK for me to wave a hunk of cheese in your face and make mousetrap jokes?"
If you were to wave something in my face there would be great chance that you would be picking both that and your teeth up off the pavement.
I don't understand your point.
It is a centuries old racist practice to compare black people to monkeys.
The rag NY Post knew exactly what it was doing when it ran this cartoon and is now feigning innocence when people react negatively.
BTW, show me any reputable magazine or newspaper that depicted Bush as a monkey.
Take all the time you need.
@Kirk:
“One does not need to have even a cursory understanding of US History to know that it is an insult to compare ANYONE to a lower primate.”
Again, intellectually fraudulent. Yes, it is an insult to compare a human with a lower order primate (in the case with Bush, I’d say the chimp was the one insulted, but I digress), but political figures are open to be insulted, par for the course, however, you ignore the sociological history of this nation in regard to race when you act as if you don’t know that as insulting as it may be to call someone a chimp because of the intellectual capacity (or lack of) it is not a racially loaded insult when directed to a White person.
You are making a false equivalence.
@uptown Nubian God:
You may well be right about there not being any Bush-chimp comparisons in reputable mags or papers -- I haven't immediately found any, but I can see from the blogs that people are looking.
You asked what is my point -- I simply meant that YOUR statement that Bush looks like a chimp doesn't in any way justify comparing Bush to a chimp.
I certainly concede that there has been a long sordid history of comparisons of black people to monkeys, and that the chimp metaphor is much more potent for blacks than for whites. However, it clearly is insulting to compare anyone of any race with a monkey.
I don't in any way defend the content of the cartoon, which I labeled "stupid" on my blog.
But I believe it was "stupid", not "racist." Specifically, I cannot believe that it was a deliberate attempt to compare OBAMA with a chimp -- even though the cartoon can be construed that way. One of the major criticisms of President Obama during the "porkulus" (not a racial metaphor) debate was that he was too hands-off and did NOT shape the outcome of the bill.
The cartoon is -- stupidly and inappropriately -- comparing the chimp with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and their colleagues in Congress who actually "wrote" the bill.
@DJ Black Adam, we cross-posted, but please read my response to the Nubian God, above. Clearly there's a racial history to simian similes. (Hey, I like that, maybe I should trademark it.) But it's an insult to compare any person's intelligence with that of a chimp.
@Kirk:
"I certainly concede that there has been a long sordid history of comparisons of black people to monkeys, and that the chimp metaphor is much more potent for blacks than for whites. However, it clearly is insulting to compare anyone of any race with a monkey."
Fair enough.
Murdoch apologises.
Looks like the pressure is getting to them.
Brother Al is on the case!
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/02/24/cartoon.murdoch/
Racism is seen through a person's particular life experiences and paradigm.
Yes, there are instances of true racism and prejudice. However, often people see racism in a situation when none is there.
ALERT: There are no monsters under the bed or in your closet!
As long as blacks lean on the crutch that they can't get ahead because "whitey is holding me down" then they will never truly get ahead as a whole.
If a black person experiences prejudice, then they need to think to themselves, "I'll work that much harder to overcome it," rather than go cry to Sharpton, Jackson or their local NAACP chapter.
Besides, life is too short to walk around bitter all the time.
Paul
Eat Well. Live Well.
PurpleGreenPops.com
"As long as blacks lean on the crutch that they can't get ahead because "whitey is holding me down" then they will never truly get ahead as a whole."
Strawman argument Paul.
Nobody said anything about "whitey holding us down".
We said that the friggin cartoon was stupid and racist.
Why do so many ignorant white bigots enjoy black conservative blogs????
uptownsteve, you have a point until you ruin it in your last paragraph. Paul may indeed have put up a strawman argument. If so, that means his argument is flawed, it does not make him a bigot.
You used the plural, so I'm guessing you also include me in the category of ignorant white bigots. I assure you I am neither ignorant nor a bigot. I'm a conservative -- and just as it is offensive for a black person to be compared with a monkey, I consider it offensive to assume that any conservative is a bigot.
And that's why I'm glad to have discovered thoughtful black conservative blogs like this one. 90-plus percent of American blacks vote Democratic. I suspect most of them are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt on the bigotry issue, but they are still opposed to my politics.
We have a black president now, and I celebrate that. It represents wonderful progress in a slavery-stained country where as a young child Barack Obama would not have been able to use certain public water fountains.
He's also a liberal Democrat, and I oppose that. But just because I'm a conservative, it doesn't mean I don't have white liberal guilt. I come here in part for reassurance that it is possible to honorably criticize Obama EVEN THOUGH he is black.
Kirk,
"You used the plural, so I'm guessing you also include me in the category of ignorant white bigots."
Actually I didn't mean you who seems somewhat reasonable and I wasn't just talking about this blog.
I've been on "Republican Brother", "Bookerrising" "Cobb" and now CBW and there are always a couple of smug white bigots like JMK, or Ken of BR and Reformed Leftist of Republican Brother who love spew anti-black rhetoric and then point to their affection for black conservatives as proof of their non-racism.
I also never stated that all white conservatives are racists.
Many are but there are a few like Mike Huckabee and Jack Kemp who know that if the Republicans really do not want to be a marginalized regional party for the next generation, they had better stop the race demogoging and start accept people of color as equal participants and fellow Americans.
uptownsteve, I'm somewhat pleased that you consider me somewhat reasonable, so please accept my tepid thanks :)
What I mean by white liberal guilt is the tendency on the part of some white people to assume that in any black-white dispute, the black person(s) must be in the right.
White liberal guilt is what prompted presidential candidate John Kerry to say that there are more blacks in prison but in college, but that it is "not their fault." (There are of course some tragic instances in which innocent people of whatever race are imprisoned and it really is not their fault. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, if someone is in prison, it IS their fault.)
White liberal guilt is the cause of what President Bush described as the soft bigotry of low expectations - the notion that society should not enforce high standards for people regardless of race.
White liberal guilt represents a laudable desire to atone for or somehow undo the fact that this country enslaved black human beings for many years, and then discriminated against them by force of law for a century more.
I believe, as Bush implied, that white liberal guilt does blacks no favor. I believe the country should enforce equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. And yes, I am opposed to Affirmative Action, for blacks or women.
"What I mean by white liberal guilt is the tendency on the part of some white people to assume that in any black-white dispute, the black person(s) must be in the right."
I've never seen that once in my life.
As a matter of fact, just the opposite. Whites usually assume the black is either whining or started the problem.
"White liberal guilt is what prompted presidential candidate John Kerry to say that there are more blacks in prison but in college, but that it is "not their fault." (There are of course some tragic instances in which innocent people of whatever race are imprisoned and it really is not their fault. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, if someone is in prison, it IS their fault.)"
First of all the stat is false. There are far more black men in college than prison.
"In 2005, according to the Census Bureau, there were 864,000 black men in college. According to Justice Department statistics, there were 802,000 in federal and state prisons and jails, "even with the old heads holding on," [director Janks] Morton says.
Between the ages of 18 and 24, however, black men in college outnumber those incarcerated by 4 to 1."
It is a lie that was also repeated adnauseum by rightwingers.
But I think what Kerry was getting at is that most blacks in jail are there for non violent drug offenses.
So although whites are five times as likely to use or deal drugs than blacks, blacks are 5 times more likely to be jailed for drug offenses.
Perhaps you can explain why that is.
"White liberal guilt is the cause of what President Bush described as the soft bigotry of low expectations - the notion that society should not enforce high standards for people regardless of race."
Nice slogan but meaningless.
Show me any arena in America where less is expected of blacks.
I've been a corporate salesman for 20 years and I've never seen an instance where I company hesitated getting rid of a black if they weren't meeting their sales quotas.
However I have seen several times attractive young white women who couldn't meet their sales goals reassigned to administrative positions.
"I believe the country should enforce equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome."
It would be great if it did but it does not always.
Resumes with "black sounding names" are routinely trashed.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_6_103/ai_97235741
And the Fair Employment Council of Washington, DC has conducted tests over the last 12 years which proves that when equally qualified blacks and whites apply for the same position the white is hired over 75% of the time.
Almost 40% of the time the black is told the position is filled.
"And yes, I am opposed to Affirmative Action, for blacks or women."
But not for white men, who have been and continue to be the biggest beneficiaries of race preference in America.
I'm sure you disagree but I've seen it all my life.
When I first saw this cartoon I immediately thought of Pelosi & Reid since it was they who actually drafted the bill and I knew it was in reference to the chimp in CT.
It wasn't until Sharpton made the news stating it was racist that I could even begin to see that side of it.
I have seen some blatant racist jokes and images and immediately recognize it for what it is. This cartoon is not even a veiled attempt at racism.
With that being said - why is it never offensive to have cartoons or art where anything Christian can be lampooned - but a chimp getting shot in reference to the stimulus bill is racist and not acceptable?
uptownsteve, I think you're starting to toy with me a bit. You say "I've never seen that [white liberal guilt] in my life," but I assure you I did not make it up.
I'm glad that there are more black men in college than in prison. Will you grant that what I wrote was not "a lie... repeated adnauseum by rightwingers," but rather a quote attributed to a Democratic presidential candidate?
I'd be interested in seeing a link supporting the statement that "whites are five times as likely to use or deal drugs than blacks, blacks are 5 times more likely to be jailed for drug offenses."
And you set up a strawman of your own when you suggest that while I oppose Affirmative Action, I don't oppose it for white men. I do, of course -- and preferences for white men would not be called Affirmative Action in any event.
Kirk
Here's the link.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/racepris.htm
"I do, of course -- and preferences for white men would not be called Affirmative Action in any event."
Of course not.
It's called American tradition.
"I come here in part for reassurance that it is possible to honorably criticize Obama EVEN THOUGH he is black."
OMIGOD.
When have white folks hestitated attacking black folks who piss them off???
"You say "I've never seen that [white liberal guilt] in my life," but I assure you I did not make it up."
Sure it's a popular slogan but just like "political correctness" it doesn't have any real substance.
uptownsteve, clearly we are not going to agree on this topic.
You ask, "When have white folks hestitated attacking black folks who piss them off???" I can assure you, from personal experience, that it happens a lot.
Thank you for the link to the Drug War Facts, I want to spend more time with some of those stats. Clearly the drug "war" as it currently is being fought is an abomination. (And no, that isn't code for "Obamanation".)
uptownsteve, you write:
I think what you're confusing this with the fact that alot of white people feel restrained because they can't act out on their race resentment and get away with it anymore.
There was time not too long ago when any white person could get up in any black person's face and scream and yell and all the black could do was get angry and say "Yassuh".
Those days are over, black people yell back now, and alot of whites feel that a right has been taken away from them.
Is that what you believe about white attitudes toward black people? Really? I ask because I can't get past the feeling that you are baiting me here. But if that really does reflect your attitude toward whites, I have to say you are trafficking in toxic stereotypes.
And you are demonstrably wrong about white attitudes toward blacks. Just ask President Obama.
As for Sharpton, I hate him because he is a race-baiting, self-serving thug with innocent blood on his hands.
I didn't vote for Barack Obama, but I admire him in many ways, and a part of me celebrated his election. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will never again be the most influential blacks in America, and that's a blessing for all Americans.
uptownsteve, let's make a deal -- you don't hold Limbaugh and O'Reilly against me, and I won't hold Sharpton against you.
Jesse Jackson doesn't belong in quite the same category as Sharpton, although I agree with you that both of them are "free lance demogogues who are beholden only to the members of their organizations and the media who gives them exposure."
However, as recently as 2006, Jesse Jackson was named, by blacks, as the most influential black leader in America. Here's the text from CBS:
When blacks were asked to come up with the person they considered "the most important black leader," 15 percent chose Jackson, a civil rights activist who ran for president in the 1980s, while 11 percent picked Secretary of State Rice, 8 percent chose former Secretary of State Powell, and 6 percent named Obama, a freshman Democratic senator from Illinois.
You write:
There was a time though that troublesome negroes like them would have been dangling from a noose in the town square for making white folks mad.
Yes there was. And despite what you seem to think, the overwhelming majority of white people join me in thanking God that those times are gone for good.
I'm not apologizing for Jesse or Sharpton.
Jesse spoke at my high school 30 years ago and didn't mention one word about "whitey" or "oppression".
He said "If my mind can concieve it, I can achieve it".
"If you can't feed the baby, don't make the baby."
"Up with hope, down with dope."
"I am SOMEBODY."
Sharpton was a 32 year street activist in 1987 when he became Tawana Brawley's media rep.
What he did to Stephen Pagones was deplorable and Sharpton's enemies will never let him forget it.
But Paganoes won a $300,000court settlement and that should have put the issue to rest.
Since that time I think Sharpton has shown tremendous growth and maturity.
He's a tremendous communicator and smart as hell.
And obviously effective at what he does or he wouldn't anger conservatives so much.
As far as your poll is concerned, that's just pure name recognition.
You talk to politically aware black folks and they know that the real movers and shakers in the black community are the Obamas, Susan Rices, Ron Kirks, Adrian Fentys, Richard Parsons', Ken Channaults, etc....
"What he did to Stephen Pagones was deplorable and Sharpton's enemies will never let him forget it.
"But Paganoes won a $300,000court settlement and that should have put the issue to rest.
"Since that time I think Sharpton has shown tremendous growth and maturity." (UTS)
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I'm glad you agree that Al Sharpton's involvement in the Tawana Brawley hoax was deplorable.
He didn't only smear and slime Pagones, but Harry Crist, a part-time officer in Duchess County who'd tragically committed suicide, just days after the hoax.
"The Brawley camp eventually accused Harry Crist, Jr., a part-time police officer, after Crist committed suicide on December 2, and Steven A. Pagones, a Duchess County district attorney, of participating in the alleged abduction and rape. Further investigation revealed that Crist had killed himself for reasons unconnected with the Brawley case, while Pagones' testimony convinced the Poughkeepsie grand jury that he was not involved in any wrongdoing. Undeterred, Maddox, Mason and Sharpton staged numerous media events, from news conferences and rallies to appearances on television shows like Phil Donahue and The Morton Downey, Jr. Show to keep national attention focused on the case.
"As time went on, the public grew increasingly skeptical of Tawana Brawley's charges and the ill-advised tactics of her handlers. When Tawana's mother was subpoenaed to appear before the grand jury and failed to do so, a warrant for her arrest was issued; Maddox, Mason and Sharpton took her to the Ebenezer Baptist Church in New York City and organized a rally, hoping (in vain) that the authorities would force their way into the church and seize her. Two of Sharpton's associates quit, claiming the reverend had known all along that the case was a hoax. Other black leaders criticized Brawley's advisers -- Ray Innes of the Congress of Racial Equality and attorney Conrad Lynn among them. They feared the hoax and the antics of publicity hounds like Sharpton would prove detrimental to the cause of racial equality."
http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id315.htm
BUT matured and grown???
What about his role in the Freddy's fire in 1995?
"In 1995, a black Pentecostal Church, the United House of Prayer, which owned a retail property on 125th Street, asked Fred Harari, a Jewish tenant who operated Freddie's Fashion Mart, to evict his longtime subtenant, a black-owned record store called The Record Shack.
"Sharpton led a protest in Harlem against the planned eviction of The Record Shack. Sharpton told the protesters, "We will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business."
"On 1995-12-08, Roland J. Smith Jr., one of the protesters, entered Harari's store with a gun and flammable liquid, shot several customers and set the store on fire. The gunman fatally shot himself, and seven store employees died of smoke inhalation...Sharpton later expressed regret for making the racial remark, "white interloper," and denied responsibility for inflaming or provoking the violence."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton
Thanks, JMK. Also, don't forget the Crown Heights riot in 1991, where Sharpton's contribution to keeping the peace was this: "If the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house" and "Talk about how Oppenheimer in South Africa sends diamonds straight to Tel Aviv and deals with the diamond merchants right here in Crown Heights."
The thing is, while I believe Al Sharpton has tried to rehabilitate his image, Kirk and UTS, I think that only highlights a horrific racial double standard.
Leftists like to compare Sharpton and the Nation of Islam folks to the likes of David Dukes, but even that's an invidious comparison, as Dukes has been a controversial political figure, whose stock and trade has been racial polarization, more like a white Jesse Jackson.
Sharpton, Quanell X and the NOI leaders are closer to are Matt Hale (founder of the vile World Church of the Creator) and Tom Metzger (of the Aryan Nation).
Sharpton rehabbing his political image is NOT akin to David Dukes doing the same, it's akin to Tom Metzger or Matt Hale, becoming mainstream white political figures, while maintaining their racial politics!
It's the same thing with Jared Taylor, a scholar, who was born to diplomatic parents in Japan and is now known for studies on things like race and crime rates, etc.
Ignorant people seek to compare Jared Taylor to the likes of Farrakhan, even Hitler...when in fact, Jared Taylor is exactly comparable to Claude Steele (brother of Shelny Steele), a scholar who has sought to explain disparate black/white test scores via "test anxiety" and other means of resucitating the now dead "test bias" arguments of the past.
Al Sharpton is a man who's gleefully made a living as a racial arsonist.
The good news is that there's really not much of a market for that today and that's why you don't see younger Sharpton's on the rise.
If it were a viable social and economic pathway to a better life, you'd see young proteges.
Ignorant people seek to compare "Jared Taylor to the likes of Farrakhan, even Hitler...when in fact, Jared Taylor is exactly comparable to Claude Steele (brother of Shelny Steele), a scholar who has sought to explain disparate black/white test scores via "test anxiety" and other means of resucitating the now dead "test bias" arguments of the past."
If that is the case then Leonard Jeffries is a scholar.
You just showed your true colors JMK.
Jared Taylor is a bottom dwelling white supremacist.
"If it were a viable social and economic pathway to a better life, you'd see young proteges."
However you do see a proliferation of black conservatives in the media because tomming is very profitable in today's media climate..
uptownsteve, you seem to be saying that any black conservative is an Uncle Tom. Is that your view?
95% of them.
Take Michael Steele for instance.
If he had any character or guts whatsoever, he would have told Rush Limbaugh to STFU and that there was going to be a new way for the Repubs to do things if they want to stay relevant or anything outside of a white, southern party.
Instead it took less than 24 hours for Steele to go groveling back to Massa Rush begging for forgiveness.
That showed black people all over America just what the Republicans are about and what black conservatives are about.
Sellouts and hustlers.
Maybe Steele was trying to please his liberal MSM "massa" as you say by condemning Limbaugh. It's not like it takes much courage to condemn Rush Limbaugh.
Donning my Mr. Rogers sweater.....
Judy dear, the point is that as soon as Steele proclaimed any kind of authority and criticized one of the powerful white men who actually run the conservative, he was promptly put in his place and offered no resistance whatsoever.
What was so revolting about the wwhole affair was how quickly and weakly he rolled over.
Shameful.
"What was so revolting about the wwhole affair was how quickly and weakly he rolled over.
Shameful."
Actually, UTS I almost agree with you however for different reasons I surmise. Michael Steele fell into the liberal trap set up for him first by Rahm Emanuel and DL Hughley. He needs to stop pandering to the left that's shameful. Rush is a conservative and not even a member of the republican party. Although if there were more real conservatives like Rush in the RNC then we wouldn't have found ourselves out on our butts. It's too bad Rush isn't a politician -- but then again I guess he tells the truth to often to be in politics.
And on she goes....................
lol...what's up with you today UTS? Why are you so "sensitive" today?
It's not being sensitive CBW and I happen to like you.
But it never ceases to amaze me how there is nothing that a white conservative can do, no slur they can make, no act of disrespect they can execute, no open show of ant-black contempt they can perform that will make a black conservative say "Okay, that's it. We're not going to put up with this."
You just excuse, deflect, and obfuscate.
But let a black liberal call one of you a "oreo".
You're ready to have a coronary.
UTS, I think Michael Steele's walk-back has a lot less to do with white/black than it has to do with Rush being a dangerous enemy to have for ANY Republican, regardless of race.
Steele is in a job where he HAS to be a Republican first, then a conservative, then a black leader. You say that makes him an Uncle Tom -- I think it makes him part of the vanguard of the GOP's effort to reinforce that the Democrats can't take the ENTIRE black vote for granted.
Kirk,
He's a Tom because he didn't stand up for himself.
Instead he allowed himself to be humiliated in order to keep his position with GOP.
Which he wouldn't have if he weren't black and a Republican.
The whole point is that he isn't any "leader" and Limbaugh showed that.
The real power behind the GOP are the same rightwing white guys that have been running it for 40 years and that's all the GOP will be for the next 40 years if they don't change their tactics.
UTS, I actually agree with this statement of yours:
The real power behind the GOP are the same rightwing white guys that have been running it for 40 years and that's all the GOP will be for the next 40 years if they don't change their tactics.
Now, how would we know if the GOP was trying to change its tactics? One sign might be if they put a black person in a fairly senior leadership role.... I dunno, something like... HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE.
And you can like him or dislike him, but he's certainly not a token -- he was elected to STATEWIDE office (Lt. Gov.) in Maryland, and he was his party's nominee in an unsuccessful run for the Senate.
I know you hate seeing a black guy taking grief from a white guy. That's understandable, and I mean that sincerely. But Steele CAN'T look at it that way. Just as Obama did not campaign and does not position himself primarily as a black leader, Steele has to put the party's best interests ahead of whatever feelings he may have as a black man. Otherwise he won't last in the job.
But if he's successful in the RNC role, he'll be well positioned for anything from another Senate run to a spot on the national ticket. And that will enable him to be a lot more effective "black leader" than any satisfaction he might get from telling Rush Whitebaugh to kiss his ass.
"And you can like him or dislike him, but he's certainly not a token -- he was elected to STATEWIDE office (Lt. Gov.) in Maryland, and he was his party's nominee in an unsuccessful run for the Senate."
He was elected as part of a ticket just like Ken Blackwell in Ohio.
As soon as he ran for office at the top of the ticket on his own as a Republican, he got trounced.
Just like Blackwell.
Meanwhile black Democrats have one statewide elections at the top of the ticket as well as the US Presidency.
You can deny all you like but Steele is just black window dressing for a white male regional rightwing party that has no intention of becoming anything in the forseeable future.
I hope he at least is being paid well.
"And that will enable him to be a lot more effective "black leader" than any satisfaction he might get from telling Rush Whitebaugh to kiss his ass."
Oh geez Kirk.
I'm not expecting Steele to be a "black leader".
The only people who use that term are white conservatives.
Is Obama a black leader?
Deval Patrick? Dave Patterson? Ike Leggett? Shirley Franklin?
These people are executives of diverse and multi racial jurisdictions and have to serve the needs of the entire community.
I expect Steele to stand up and be a man.
To LEAD. Not to take a upbraiding from some fat racist.
Do you think for one second that the late Ron Brown would have taken that off some radio jock?
Black Republicans have to eat $hit because of the crown they're serving.
OK, after further exhaustive research, I'll concede that I may be overselling Steele.
Let me ask you something, UTS: Is there ANY black Republican (or black conservative) you admire, however grudgingly? You said above that "95%" of black conservatives are Uncle Toms, which implies that there are exceptions. Can you name any black Republican/conservative who you do not consider a traitor to his race? (And if you are offended by the phrase "traitor to his race," please help me understand the distinction between that and "Uncle Tom.")
Let me offer some suggestions in this list of black Republicans and/or black conservatives who are admired by SOME people (not necessarily by me): Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Clarence Thomas (yes, I know), Thomas Sowell, Deroy Murdoch and (arguably) Bill Cosby.
Never called anyone a "traitor to their race".
An Uncle Tom is a black who seeks favor with and grovels for the affection of white bigots.
I don't like Black Republicans because they don't stand up for us.
They don't even stand up for themselves ala Steele.
They gleefully perform as flunkies for a party that has not only ignored the black community but has actively demonized it.
I would have a glimmer of respect for them if they confronted the troglodytes in the GOP like the Buchanans, Hannitys, Limbaughs with one fraction of the energy with which they attack their fellow blacks.
I respect and admire Colin Powell and as you see he has very little to do with the GOP now after his experience with them over the last 8 years.
I suggest you read J.C. Watts' book "Color of a Conservative" to find out why he left politics.
He gleefully functioned as an attack for the right when he was first elected to the House. But he was continuously disrespected and insulted by his fellow House Republicans and finally regained a sense of self-respect and quit.
Now let me flip the script on you.
Can you name any black liberal or Democrat that you respect or do you feel that black Republicans are the only blacks who aren't welfare check collectin, nine-totin, reparation begging, baby droppin cretins?
Bill Cosby is NOT a Republican and indeed a close friend of Jesse Jackson.
I disagree on Sowell, Murdock and Thomas.
Bottomdwelling hustlers of the lowest order.
I can't tell you how many times I've debated white supremacists on these boards who have cited Thomas Sowell as an intellectual mentor.
What's wrong with THAT picture?
UTS, I proudly voted for John McCain because I preferred him as a potential Commander in Chief, and all other issues are secondary to me. But in many ways, I have tremendous respect for Barack Obama.
I respect him as a thoughtful intellectual (even though my own intellect often leads me in different directions).
I respect him as an archetypal family man who serves as an admirable model not just for black Americans, but for all Americans.
I respect him for reaching across racial boundaries.
I respect him for overcoming personal disadvantages in his childhood.
And because results matter, I respect him for his achievement in winning the presidency. A man who in his early childhood would not have been allowed to use certain public drinking fountains in the South has been elected to the most powerful office in the world. I have celebrated that fact on my blog, and I continue to celebrate it -- even as I speak against parts of his domestic and fiscal agenda. (I'm pretty cool with his foreign policy so far.)
I say to fellow Republicans that on Jan. 20, Barack Obama became MY president -- and if you make a point of insisting that he is not YOUR president, then you are not my countryman.
Going back into recent history, I have tremendous admiration for Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., although I consider him a great man rather than a saint. If he were alive today I expect my feelings about him would be similar to my feelings about Obama -- admiration on many levels, tempered by opposition to their socialist-leaning politics. (And no, "socialist" is NOT racial code.)
Obama and MLK are pretty easy. We've already established that I don't like Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. I'm not an expert on NY politics, but from what I know of David Dinkins and and David Paterson, they seem like good human beings, although somewhat ineffective as executives.
Deval Patrick seems like a good guy, which I know sounds like faint praise, but I just don't know him that well. You also mentioned Ike Leggett and Shirley Franlin, about whom I know even less, but based on their Wikipedia entries I have no quarrel with them.
Thanks for the tip about Watts's book, which I've added to my Amazon wish list.
I disagree about Dinkins and Patterson.
I think they both are being judged by a standard that white politicians aren't.
I grew up in NYC and it's worse days were under Beame and Koch yet Dinkins is being singled out as this "ineffective" Mayor.
Patterson's problems are more political than any reflection of his administrative abilities.
You're right. Obama and MLK are easy picks.
It still seems like you have problems with black liberals in leadership positions.
Carl McCall would have made a fine Governor.
Doug Wilder was outstanding as Virginia Governor.
The last two Mayors of DC, Tony Williams and Adrian Fenty have been extremely effective.
Ike Leggett is the African-American County Executive of Montgomery County, MD.
One of the richest and best educated jurisdictions in the nation.
Now you're moving the goalposts. I do not consider any of the people you mention to be, in your words, "welfare check collectin, nine-totin, reparation begging, baby droppin cretins".
It's easy for ME to say I admire Obama on many levels, but that does not make the example any less valid, because my view is not universally held on the right. To put it mildly.
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