Wednesday, August 12, 2009

President Obama Contradicts Senator Obama

No only does President Obama contradict Senator Obama as shown in the video clip below:

But he also tells 7 lies or to be generous half truths in his Portsmith New Hampshire townhall yesterday as outlined below by the Heritage Foundation:

“I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter.” This is directly contradicted by candidate Barack Obama’s own website which quotes Obama at a rally in Ames, Iowa form 2008: “If I were designing a system from scratch I would probably set up a single-payer system. … So what I believe is we should set up a series of choices….Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system.” So there you have in one paragraph the true purpose of Obama’s public option: a vehicle to slowly transition all Americans out of private coverage and into a government-run single payer health care system. This Trojan Horse view of the public option has been reaffirmed by Reps. Barney Frank (D-MA), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein, and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman.

“Under the reform we’re proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.” This statement is also plainly false. Again, as demonstrated above, the true purpose of Obama’s public option is to move Americans out of their private coverage and into government run health care. Independent, non-partisan analysis from the Lewin Group has confirmed the House bill, H.R. 3200, will do exactly that: About 88.1 million workers would see their current private, employer-sponsored health plan go away and would be shifted to the public plan.

“That’s what the health exchange is all about, is that you — just like a member of Congress — can go and choose the plan that’s right for you.” This statement isn’t false, but it is misleading. Members of Congress do purchase their health care through a health exchange: the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). Through the FEHBP 283 private plans compete for federal employees’ health care dollars. The Heritage Foundation has long been a supporter of health reform that empowers consumers to utilize a FEHBP like system. But Obamacare is nothing like the FEHBP system. There is no government run public option competing with private plans in the FEHBP. So whenever Obama says that a health exchange already “drives down costs” he is right … but remember that this cost reduction is achieved purely by private health coverage without any “competition” from a government run public option.

“We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors.” This is just plain false. The AARP released a statement late yesterday directly contradicting the President: “While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.”

“I just want to be clear, again: Seniors who are listening here, this does not affect your benefits. This is not money going to you to pay for your benefits; this is money that is subsidizing folks who don’t need it.” Under the current system, more and more seniors are discovering that it is becoming harder and harder to find and keep doctors who will accept Medicare patients. A 2008 survey found that 29% of the Medicare beneficiaries it surveyed who were looking for a primary care doctor had a problem finding one to treat them. Obamacare will only make this problem worse by cutting $313 billion in Medicare reimbursements to health care providers over the next 10 years. This will only force more doctors to stop seeing Medicare patients. Obama also mentioned yesterday that he wants to pay for subsidized health care by killing the Medicare Advantage program. Medicare Advantage plans cover all of the traditional Medicare benefits and much more, including coor­dinated care and care-management programs for enrollees with chronic conditions as well as additional hospitalization and skilled nursing facility stays. 22% of all Medicare patients, which translates to 10.5 million seniors, are currently enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans.

“I said I won’t sign a bill that adds to the deficit or the national debt. Okay? So this will have to be paid for.” That is a nice promise, but so was Obama’s October 2008 promise that he would enact a “net spending cut.” We all know how that has turned out. The reality is that the Senate still has not figured out how to pay for their bill and the House bill would increase the budget deficit by $239 billion over the next ten years. CBO director Doug Elmendorf has said: “In sum, relative to current law, the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year budget window.”

“My belief is, is that [Obamacare] should not burden people who make $250,000 a year or less.” Both the House and Senate bills partially pay for Obamacare by imposing “employer mandates” or “pay or play” provisions that require employers to pay higher taxes if (a) they do not offer health insurance, or (b) they offer it but have employees who decline it and instead use the government system. Multiple studies have shown that such provisions cause both lower wages and lost jobs for low-income workers.

Again, I'm not sure what it will take for Obama supporters to begin to think clearly and critically about the agenda this man is trying to advance.


Smile said...

But the various contradictions go so nicely with all the hypocrisy.

Obama spoke of not wanting it to appear that his town hall meetings were scripted or planted, while at the podium in NH? He said, “I don’t want people saying I just have a bunch of plants in here.”

A little girl, 11 yr old Julia Hall asked, “How do kids know what is true, and why do people want a new system that can — that help more of us?”

Actually, this could not be more scripted and less random. Julia's Mom is Kathleen Manning Hall. See here:

And here:

There are a lot of 'screen shots' in case they change their page content, as they're prone to do when the truth comes out. Michelle Malkin did a piece as well called, 'Little girl at Obama town hall has not-so-random political connections'.

Contradictions indeed!

Smile said...

Note: The AARP isn't actually false so much as it coy. It's a cute little dance they are doing and they have been slow dancin to this tune for quite some time.

The CEO of AARP is on tape expressing full support. Their is numerous sources available that specifically shows the AARP in full support. This is how they 'work' the public. Beem goin on for years.

The splitting of the hairs, the parsing of the words, we might as well go back to the 1st blk pres and do what 'is' is.

The Ball said...

We are in the era of change. The Gop is guilty of holding back black people and being greedy and keeping all the money amongst white folks. We can never forgive them for that.

The DNC creates the KKK to keep blacks from voting. Hose us down in the streets and run around with confederate flags supporting the GOP and we are supposed to believe everything they say.

I live in the Confederate Hometown. I went to Robert E. Lee Elementary. When I found out the history of the DNC and the GOP I had to research the past 200 years. I am still not happy with the DNC.

But if Obama can change his mind I guess I should be happy with that. The DNC can go from creating the KKK to being the saviors of black people. I guess I should be happy with that to.

Smile said...



I know, like it's not obvious ;)

The Ball, you sound a bit confused.
I'm glad to hear you're studying, keep it up.

CBW, you must be close to the bone 'cause they actin' worried.

KathyTheEngineer said...

Very nice synopsis. My parents are in Medicare Advantage. There are no local doctors who will accept Medicare patients, but they will happily see those in Medicare Advantage, because the private administrators actually pay the bills! My folks pay a premium for this (this despite their years of work during which they paid into the Medicare program), but consider it worth the expense to make sure they can actually see a doctor when they need to.

The astroturfing by SEIU and other leftist organizations is causing violence in townhall meetings. We should be outraged that a black professor who can't be civil to a uniformed police officer was arrested (and released without charges), but we are not allowed to even notice that a black conservative was beaten without provocation, by SEIU members at a townhall meeting in St. Louis? Why don't we hear "the union members acted stupidly"? Why isn't this a "teaching moment"? Instead, they call the non-violent (albeit sometimes loud) protesters "un-American". The sheer hypocrisy of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Kathleen Sebelius, and yes, even Obama himself, is just disgusting.

Anonymous said...


What are you saying exactly? (No disrespect intended)

Constructive Feedback said...

CBW - Is Back On The Blog!!!

Tell that husband of yours that we need you spending time in the fight against the BQPFRCs. He needs to find a hobby to occupy his time. :-) :-) :-) :-)

BLACK INK said...

Let us always remember and learn from the past but let us also live in the present and prepare for our future. Past transgressions do not excuse present behavior and the sins of our fathers shall not condemn the sons and daughters in perpetuity.
African leaders have historically not been too kind to our black brothers and sisters throughout our homeland.....past, present and the foreseeable future.
So before we condemn all the white people of America, perhaps we should take a moment to reflect on how Africans have treated their own in Africa throughout history and also how we have in turn treated our own brothers and sisters since coming to America on slave ships. Black on black has not been pretty to put it mildly.
It is time to stop being victims and instead be victorious.
Where else on the planet do black men, women and children have a better lifestyle or opportunity than in America? It sure as heck is not Africa.
So instead of always making excuses let us instead make progress to strengthen our faith, families and future.

Smile said...

@Constructive Feedback

Ha ha! Can I use that line on a few people?

I'm sure everyone has seen Sheila Jackson Lee who says "I am not rude" but you must see this clip,

Fellow citizens, this is our country. It's good to see us acting like it. We should remember that we don't need to do a lot of screaming or yelling but, let's be involved. Lets BE THERE so OUR voices are heard.

Don't you think we've sat on the sidelines too long while the haters go out and appear to speak for everyone?

If there's going to be rude, crude, subversive behavior caught on tape, it better not be US. But, we aught to be caught BEING THERE.

Anyone can complain amongst themselves. We've been doing that for years, decades. We need to step up, get out, and be counted. You in? Why not, you scared?

Did I say this is OUR country?

If you're even remotely serious, get a backbone and be involved with a TEA Party in your area. Ignore the guilt trip.

If you're even remotely serious about being fed up with the charge of being called racist by the racists, let's make these tea parties (and everything else!!!) look like the melting pot that is the strength of this nation. Otherwise it's just talk. Let's go DO SOMETHING!

I guaran dam tee ya, it will get us our country back. What is our country? It's WE the people! Not we the haters, not we the politicians, not we the talking heads, not we the acorn group, not we the president, not we the guilt trippers. Enough, don't drink the kool aid!

I'd rather drink tea.

The Ball said...

Smile/ anonymous/ Black Ink,

What I am saying is that it is O.K. for the Democrats to chnage their mind and ways (i.e. Obama changing hois mind on his stance on healthcare). But the nasty Republicans can't do the same.

It just bugs the crap out of me that am supposed to support the creators of the KKK and the same people who hosed down black people on the streets because sometime last century they decided to start helping out black folks.

Also, I am labled as an uncle tom and some of my more sane white friends who have genuine issues with the healthcare bill along with Democrats like Author Davis are labled racist and can't stand having a black man in office.

Just Venting

The Democrats have control of the house, senate and oval office and yet we are labled as the resaon healthcare for all Americans is being heldup. The common sense of people has gone down the toilet.

I have not heard a price for how much I will be paying as an individual for this plan that will be probably be subsidzed and paid for directly out of my bank account.

I think before they invest a trillion into healthcare we should invest in a nationwide census in regards to the current healthcare status of Americans. we shouldfind out how many people are really unisured and how many don't care to be insured. we should also study the illegal immigration issue that contributes to the rising cost of healthcare in America.

Just Venting - don't mean to sound confused.

The Ball said...

In that last post I meant to say
" They say that all of these protestors can't stand to have a black man in office"

Aside from the racist idiots a vast majority of the protestors just don't want a bullshit healthcare system similar to what they tried to rush through the house and senate.

The Ball said...


Thanks for the wonderful above post. I could not have said it any better. We need to be more civil about approaching our senators and congressmen/wemon. Sheila Jackson was very rude and disrespectful.

I would like to see the senators and congressman/wemon be more honest about the contents of the bill though.

The Ball said...

Black Ink,

"Where else on the planet do black men, women and children have a better lifestyle or opportunity than in America? It sure as heck is not Africa.
So instead of always making excuses let us instead make progress to strengthen our faith, families and future."

I feel you brother. I work hard to make a living as a franchise owner. I feel that my step as one of the youngest black franchise owners in my company is leaving the door open to the next generation of blacks who wish to be more involved with what I do.

We have excellent opportunities here in America. I come from a town that was left hanging dry by a big tobacco company leaving and plagued with crack during the 80's and 90's. Yet I continued to push forward and here I am today setting a good example for my three sons (by my wife I might Add) and making a pretty decent commission.

BLACK INK said...

Family is a reflection of one's character and yours is solid. Your values, sacrifices and dedication in that regard will bear much choice fruit in the generations to come.

Smile said...

@The Ball,

Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss.

I appreciate your explanation and I can relate.

Yes, our politicians should be more transparent. This will never be the case when they can rely on 'we the people' not holding them accountable.

We must stop accepting everything 'they' say, and develop our critical thinking.

I agree, we need to know the actual answers to the insured/uninsured, illegal immigration, the cost of health care, and a host of other things.

As together we seek to be informed, here's a little book that has a lot of information. It's not up to date in the current debate but it provides some timeless answers.

We will continue to encourage each other in our endeavors.

Smile said...

Studies done of reports on health care from the Congressional Budget Office, Blue Cross-Blue Shield and Georgetown University, show there's a big difference between health CARE and health INSURANCE. To say I don't have health insurance equals I don't have good health care, isn't true. To assume that because I have health insurance means I have good health care isn't true.

Everyone has access to health care. They might not have health insurance, but the law mandates everyone who shows up at emergency rooms must be treated, insurance or not.

About 14 mn of the uninsured were eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP 2003, a BlueCross-BlueShield Association study based on 2003 data estimated. These people would be signed up for government insurance if they ever made it to the emergency room.

A whole 70% of uninsured children are eligible for Medicaid, SCHIP, or BOTH programs, a 2008 study by the Georgetown University Health Policy Institute shows.

Census figures also show that 18.3 mn of the uninsured were under 34 who may simply not think about the need for insurance, or have made their choice for some reason.

And of those 46 mn without insurance, an estimated 10 mn or so are non-U.S. citizens who may not be eligible, according to statistics from the Census Bureau.

Many who can afford health insurance, for whatever reason choose to not buy it. In 2007, an estimated 17.6 mn of the uninsured made more than $50,000 per year, and 10 mn of those made more than $75,000 a year, says Sally Pipes, author of the book, The Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen's Guide, a book that attempts to dig behind the numbers. According to author Pipes, 38% of the U.S. uninsured population earns more than $50,000 per year.

That means 38% of the uninsured likely make enough to afford health insurance, but for undetermined reasons choose not to buy it.

Arduous but check it out at the Congressional Budget Office (CBO):

ar said...

Health care is your health insurance. Health begins at the table.

Smile has important points to make. Upon signing out of emergency care, the ex-patient is asked how they intend to pay and the details can be worked out, there on the spot.

Raising children can be costly but I have always found willingness to pay goes great distances.

Personally, if it wasn't for emergency, I wouldn't be hear to pay for it - in installments.

28,000 became 50 dollars to the chief surgeon each month, 10 to each one after that and so on. They were thrilled I showed up and paid - hell, I was thrilled i showed up...

Professionals are there for us and have been right along. Yep, there are the bad ones out there but don't they always get found out.

The costs are higher than I like but we give away more health care than some ever see.

When house-calls were the norm, good doctors taught preventative care but we have become lax in treating ourselves(it begins at the table).

Yesterday, I read Mickey Mantle's wife passed away. One of his sons had non-hodgkins lymphoma in 2000 and didn't make it. In 1995, I had the same thing. I assumed from the article, because it didn't say otherwise, the treatments didn't work. For my- self, I went alternative care with organics, etc. With the cases I had heard of over the years, it seems to always point to the individuals' responsibility to know themselves and what it will take to keep themselves healthy.

When our incomes allow, we pay for what we want. Quite a place we have, huh? It looks like it is more expensive than ever but I liken that to illegal immigration if most of the patients using the system are not paying for it.

I want to keep what we have, especially the elderly - I'm almost one...

Constructive Feedback said...

Looks like CBW disappeared again. :LOL

Beyond The Political Spectrum said...

I was just this minute watching a news broadcast from a protest out of Raleigh, NC in front of Senator Kay Hagen's office. The reporter made the statement that "When I asked the protesters whether any of them had read the details of Obama's proposal, most said no." He then asked one older woman, "If you have not read any of details of the proposal, how do you know what you're protesting?" I swear, the woman said, "No, I haven't read any, but I rely on the Holy Spirit to tell me what's going on, and It told me that this is wrong." It's so nice to see the American voting electorate so informed as to get their "infalible" information from their abtract beliefs. And THESE are the people that protesters think are right? They represent the paranoid fringe! So I and others are supposed to not have access to affordable health care because SHE believes in getting her "insight" from the Great Beyond? Insanity (I'll do everything in my power to find a video of this and post it).

Smile said...

@Beyond The Political Spectrum
"...and post it."

Don't bother, I believe you.

I look at it this way: Wisdom, it's the principle thing. It takes a smidge of wisdom to realize we should have a public face and a private face. Public words (see how important) and private words. Don't air your laundry in public and don't let your hair or guard down there either. Obviously, some need to grow in wisdom more and maybe a few other areas as well. Don't we all.

Beyond TPS, you could grow a bit as well. See, you've taken one or a handful and presented it as if it represents everyone. EVERYONE wasn't there. So, you ignore all the things we've pointed out AND we have read the bill, and lots of other references. You don't sound like you have.

Very importantly, those you speak of could very well have been plants by The Democrat Party, which has been revealed to often be the case. I won't have a problem posting links for those (KNOWN) plants on my next post.

Smile said...

People! Democrats and their followers are up to their same old tricks. Take a quick peek at these links. They show you the copious plants and tricks by the democrat part and their operatives/followers. The Democrats do things to try to force others to believe all their rhetoric against Conservative/Republican/Right Wing/Moderate people and anyone else who won't drink their kool aid. Like Christians, for example.

Let me know if you want more. There's is lots and lots. Gobs! Endless!

Smile said...


I sure do enjoy your posts.

And everyone's!

God bless you with a wonderful weekend.

Constructive Feedback said...

Please confirm

Smile and CBW are two different people?

Smile said...

@Constructive Feedback

Whaaahaha, ha, ha! I love it!

That we are two different people couldn't be more true, but thank you!

Matter of fact, am I not on your 'mailing list'?

Could be you, CBW, and I are triplets though ;)

Attorneymom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Attorneymom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Attorneymom said...

To all the Conservative Black Woman followers:

Please note that CBW and her hubby are in route home from dropping their lovely daughter off at Spellman College. Yes, you read correctly. Her daughter is attending an HBCU.

Anyways, she wanted me to let you know that she has not abandoned her readership. She will return soon. Just give her chance to get home from her emotional weekend.

Sidebar: I tried to get her to take one of my children home with her, but she would not. Sigh.

Attorneymom said...

Sidebar: Some of you really need to get a life. : - )

Smile said...


tee hee

MrsGrapevine said...

#1: Just because he supports single payer doesn't mean he's pushing single payer. He may only be President for one term, so if it slowly moves in that direction it won't be because he orchestrated it. I'm pro-life for myself and I still believe in a woman's right to choice, but I wouldn't encourage a woman to have an abortion, or push it by law, so sorry it doesn't make him a lie.

#2 AARP wants to be seen as neutral, but you have to know that Obama wouldn't put it out there if AARP wasn't in negotiations, and AARP has been the biggest supporting via ads of health care reform. So I don't think Obama was telling lies, and neither was AARP because technically there isn't a bill, yet. But I bet once there is, AARP will endorse it.

#3 If more and more seniors can't get health care or is losing medicare, then it sounds like they are doomed either way. If Obama does nothing they lose, and if Obama does something they lose. Yet, he's the one labeled a liar. Medicare Advantage is part of the reason Medicare will be bankrupt. So in your words there is no solution.

#4 Why did Obama have a record budget deficit? Because he just wanted to spend money, because he was so bored he just wanted to spend. The stimulus was 800 billion, so where did the other factors that contribute to the record deficit come from, hmmmmm, could it be Bush spending. The new budget year doesn't start until October, meaning conservatives help create this deficit...

When he campaigned on Budget cuts, it was before the Dow dropped 900 pts, and we realized we were approaching a depression. Yes, there are independent economist who say the stimulus helped, and that it should have been more, oh and large portions of that deficit included tax cuts...I am really tired of conservatives putting all the fault on liberals. If Obama goes 1 cent over Bush's budget he will be the biggest spender ever, you know why because Bush was the biggest spender ever before Obama, and at least Obama's spending came from trying to bail out Bush's mess.

Imagine how great it would be now if McCain and Palin were leading.

Conservative Black Woman said...

MrsGrapevine~Unfortunately one can ONLY imagine.

Attorneymom said...

CBW, are you still crying??

Conservative Black Woman said...

Hey Attorneymom~No, I'm not crying We've been doing the Skype thing a few times a day....I think she is trying to ween me however because it's been a few

Anonymous said...

When will the time come when people that are not totally ignorant quit believing anything this poser tells us?

BLACK INK said...

Mrs. Grapevine:
I'm afraid you have overdosed on the Kool Ade.
You apparently judge Obama by his talk whereas I prefer to judge the man by his walk.
Obama was a brilliant campaigner and bullshitter but has proven to be a liar and a very poor president.
Blaming others is not an accomplishment. I have tired of his plethora of excuses for personal transgressions while condemning others similarly situated.
Unfortunately, Obama is nothing more than an arrogant fraud and great disappointment.
1. Obama not only is on record for supporting a single payer system he is also doing what he can to accomplish that goal. Obama's proposed government plan will have a disproportionate noncompetitive advantage that will have the ultimate net effect of a single payer system, notwithstanding his double talk to the contrary...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a friggin duck.
2. AARP was manipulated and mislead. They will never support a bill that negatively impacts seniors to the degree Obama advocates. You again overestimate Obamas wisdom.
3. It does not have to be lose-lose for seniors on Medicare. There are more options than Obama's and the current system. To advocate otherwise demonstrates ignorance of the issue. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water appropriately identify the strengths and weaknesses of the system and address the problems intelligently in an incremental fashion. There is plenty of fraud and abuse and irresponsible behavior that can be addressed as a starting point. But that would require involving caregivers in the trenches rather than limiting input to political spin masters serving a socialist agenda at the expense of the health and welfare of the American peolple.
4.The economy today is a reflection of the Bush Presidency. However, Obama has recently claimed credit for the stock market rebound crediting his own stimulus package as the reason. I call bullshit on that. The Obama "stimulus" that was anything but transparent and was rushed through Congress under the "chicken little" principle has yet to hit the streets more than ~8%. So whatever problems and or recovery we are experiencing today is on Bush. Obama wants to only take credit for the good and blame Bush for the bad....he can't have it both ways. Obama's effect will be midterm and then we'll see his negative impact from unbridled irresponsible spending and it won't be pretty.

You need to get past the Obama hype and mystique and be objective.....all is not black vs. white.

Smile said...


"Imagine how great it would be..."

Imagine if you will, how great it would be if you'd read over your post, could see where it is coy, splitting hairs so as not to call a lying scam a lie, and you had the gonads to admit it.

I'm sure "we can only imagine" that as well.

I have provided links to 'other' health plan proposals, right here on this site. Here it is again:

Once you're on this site you can click on the various links to learn various aspects.

Smith said...

Do you suffer from welfare mentality? Surprisingly, I think we all do but you decide.

Dr. Lawrence Wilson, "Though we may not wish to admit it, American health care is only slightly less socialized than the single-payer systems of Europe and Canada. No wonder costs are out of control. Deregulating health care would benefit all Americans and restore a crippled system to sanity. Health care does not have to be costly or dangerous."

When the likes of Paul Krugman call themselves 'economists' do we not get the joke? NYT Editorial, August 2nd, 2002
"To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble." Krugman isn't an economist. He's a Keynesian political operative. The housing crises was EXACTLY caused by the Keynesian policies Krugman has been advocating for all of his career. Are we happy with his housing bubble proposal?

We won't be any happier with his health ideas either.

We must have less socialistic health care, not more.

If you listen to these people, they're still trying to prod us with fear about our health care. According to them, we must lose no time in passing a health care bill.

Even without this end of life counseling mandate, the bill is full of CONTROL of our doctors, technology, insurance, our health care CHOICES, AND it would drive our private health care OUT OF BUSINESS.

Ms. Grapevine, I thought you people were all about that choice thingy!

Smile said...

AND....AND, this administration is supposed to be smart enough to handle the complications of our health care and quickly, yet THEY say they keep making technology mistakes with email.

This is the second time, that we know of!

I smell roasting acorn nuts!

Smile said...

If you have an elected official, senator, congressman, et al, who you are not in agreement with, who happens to be democrat, you might have emailed them about your concerns.

Considering their 'by any means necessary methods' you might wonder if these officials provide their email list to others. Selectively of course.

Lets stay tuned.

Smile said...

It is contradictory to say "more affordable" when it leads to more cost in actual expenditure.

The words 'health reform' and the like, sound nice. Look behind the words and labels to see what they really propose and what they will actually accomplish. If they continue to cause business to be more costly, those costs will/must be handed down to the consumer. See: insurance businesses. If proposed health policies from politicians don't address the ACTUAL problems of COST and efficiency, it's a government bunny trail scam.

We have amazing health care opportunities, research, doctors, specialist, scientists, technology, and these things aren't broken and are sought out by all others around the globe. We can acknowledge these things aren't cheap. We want to keep them. We do desperately need to be more cost effective AND make it less costly and prohibitive for us/consumers. This can easily be accomplished. Yet, it's the very thing 'they' are not fixing.

Smile said...

Our health care privileges in ACTION. Choose very wisely, grasshopper, if you want to keep them.

Check this out:

It's a reminder of how good we have it, lest we jump from the frying pan into the fire.

Bud Fox said...

I'm new to your site and I think I like it. (I have to read through some of your older post.)

MrsGrapevine said...

@ Black Ink:

1)While it's nice of you to assume that I drink the obama Kool Aid, and that I'm not just a liberal who believes in these things. I think Obama needs to grow a sack and forget about being popular and pass this healthcare reform public option and all without Repubs or conservatives. What politician has been proven a liar? You're the ones falling for speeches and voting for people that doesn't share your ideology. I'm a liberal, I voted for Obama because I'm a liberal and agree with him 85% of the time, some of you voted for him because he was black. Tsk tsk tsk....

2) What are the other options for seniors. Everyone keeps saying their so many other options and none of them are on the table. You can't even name any. This bill proposes reduces fraud, but that's only a minor part of the problem. It's not like 50% of medicare is fraud and social security is fraud. Let's that 5% can be attribute to fraud, and ooh! That will save so much money, and probably insure a at least few more more thousand people.

I'm sorry because the insurance companies care about seniors so much more than their own profits, and yet their not death panels, although they deny people based on pre-existing problems, however the government who already provides these services to people on medicare are. Who sounds ignorant, now?

The President is proposing strengthening the system, and cutting cost, and fraud. So, you do agree with Obama.

3) You had eight years to prove that lowering taxes would work for the economy and guess what the end result was. You can't run two wars without raising taxes, check the history of high taxes in times of war.

4)This started after the 100 days of Obama presidency, we have no clue what type a President he is or could be because people have been fighting him day 1. You want him to fail, and you will throw everything at him including the kitchen sink. Even if he didn't own it, it will still be his fault. The only way he can win in your eyes, is to think like a conservative, which he is not.

5) Why do we have mandate for auto insurance, and not for people? Once again if you value life then you value care for all no matter their sex, race, age, income, or health. Sorry, I will always chose people over money. It's about quality of life not quantity.

MrsGrapevine said...

@ Smile:

First off I don't have gonads, it's Mrs Grapevine, get it right, it's really easy to read. A little literacy goes a long way.

I did not split hairs to not call him a liar. I don't think he's a liar. If he believes in single payer, then he believes in it, but he's not pushing it in this bill or on the American people. So that does not make him liar.

I don't see how learning facts and adjusting your position based on new facts is being a liar. It's called making an informed decision.

He's trying to stay true to his promises but he is learning that government is a machine that's hard to turn, but he hasn't stopped trying, and even if people don't like him, they agree and appreciate his effort to stay committed to those things.

So you hate him and it's obvious, but that doesn't make him the person you see him as because you don't agree with his ideology. I know and understand what politics are, so I know what's possible and what's not, and I admire him for trying. I'm proud another black person is breaking a ceiling and finding his way.

He's been called spook, nazi, coon, monkeys, gorilla, fascist, undocumented, and lynched in effigy. He has put up with so much hatred, and keeps brushing his shoulders off, and even if you don't like him because he's a liberal, it's very honorable to see a man living above racism and not letting it take him down.

So no, I don't think he's a liar, because I don't think he intentionally mislead people, and I think he's trying his hardest to move more toward the center because he knows his philosophy is more left than America.

I"m not going to have the same hatred you do. I don't even have that hatred for Bush because at the end of day, I think he believed he was doing what's right even if it didn't turn out right.

When it comes to health care it is a RIGHT.

MrsGrapevine said...

@ Smile:

I'm not sure what you mean by "you people" but if you mean a church going, stay at home mom, married to the husband of all her children, with a family owned and operated business, who has a bachelor degree, and lives in Texas in house she can afford, then I guess you are not talking to me, BUT

If you mean liberal leaning, then yes we believe in choice, but I also thought conservatives valued people and believed in LIFE, but I guess I was wrong, too.

Government mandate for cars, but not for me. Who cares if you have the right to Life, we just want help you have quality of life. But don't worry when it hits your pocket books, you too will understand why reform is a necessary.

Besides you are already paying the private companies extra to cover the uninsured.

Smile said...


I think I have it, thanks. You're saying you have no gonads. That's exactly what I said. So, you agree with me that you've no gonads.

Glad we cleared that up, sorry for any misunderstanding.

Smile said...


You to Black Ink: "2) What are the other options for seniors. Everyone keeps saying their so many other options and none of them are on the table. You can't even name any." Not true.

I take it you've ignored the links I provided upstream. It's for the information you say isn't available. You know, those other options you keep whining about.

If you are here just to slander conservative values, be up front about that. If you're truly on this blog site in search of answers to health care and costs, then you will find the links I've provided above. Take time to look them over so we can have an intelligent debate.

Smile said...


I resent all those names you called President Obama. I've never heard anyone say those things about him until you.

If the people you hang around talk like that, please...PLEASE, refrain from repeating.

Thank you ever so much.

Smile said...


You contradict yourself in having a nice house you can afford to needing my help financially.

You've been quite extreme in your accusations, and bordering on what could look like hate speech.

I won't comment further on the rest of your diatribe.

BLACK INK said...

Dearest Ms. Grape,
It seems your logic is as dried up as a raisin.
You so desperately want Obama to be what he is not and never will be that in the process you have reduced your reasoning ability to that of a silly "Pied Piper" minion.
Therefore, if I, or anyone else were to engage you in an objective intellectual fashion it would be a futile undertaking; as evidenced by your very odd nonsensical remarks.
To argue with a fool renders one a fool as well; so with that I bid you farewell madame.....may you dwell blissfully in your ignorant fog.

BLACK INK said...

Hey Ms. Grape,
It looks like you didn't take biology, physiology or anatomy in college. But then again maybe you slept through class and were socially promoted. At any rate, the term "gonads" refers to one's reproductive glands--a male would have a pair of testicles whereas a female would have a pair of ovaries. Based on your assertion that you reproduced with your live in baby daddy you do have or at least did have a pair of or at least one (1) functioning gonad.
Thus endith the 4th Grade Reproductive Biology refresher lesson. Next time stay awake in class....a brain is a terrible thing to waste.

MrsGrapevine said...

@ black:
You can take the heat so you get out the kitchen, glad I was able to make you stop trying. Agree to disagree but don't give up, unless you feel you don't have a point.


I didn't say you couldn't provide any information, I believe as you noted it was directed to @ black

@black: thanks for the biology lesson, I'm sure he meant my ovaries.

Wow because I don't agree with you, I'm ignorant. Ha ha ha! That is too funny. There is only one way to think, and if you don't think that way you are brainwashed, ignorant, or dumb.

Because I can afford my house I contradict my self for wanting financial help. Wow that's even funnier. Especially if that's the only thing you got out of that.

You have never heard Obama called any of those things, it's really easy to find it, google it in the news. It's even made it on Fox News, surely you at least watch that.

Go ahead, and give up like Palin. Touche.

Smile said...

@Mrs Gossip

If you won't read the information via the links I've provided we can't talk about facts. Usted entiende?

Smile said...

Above I mean Mrs Grapevine...please excuse.

MrsGrapevine said...

@ Smile:

I'm sure you didn't mean it, but I am a gossip and celebrity blogger, and I make decent money doing it.

I am reading the links you posted, thank you for assuming that I'm not or that I won't, and I'm also wondering why none these were enacted when premiums were rising over the past 8 years to see if they would have worked.

I don't just believe because I believe, I actually read opposing views, and love debates. How can you argue if you don't know the other side.

Aliah said...

I found your blog while surfing the net. I belong to no political party, yet I work part time, I have a son and no healthcare. I just want to know whats so bad about a public option. My dad died 2 years ago because he could not get his insurance company to cover his treatment. Now you tell me whats wrong with this picture.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Aliah~Since you are a young woman who works part-time with a child then there is already a public option for you and your son it's called Medicaid.

I'm very sorry that you lost your father. While he may have had a "pre-existing" condition which prohibited him from purchasing insurance if individually-- was he not able to obtain coverage through a group plan perhaps his job. If he was unemployed or retired then your father would have been eligible for coverage through Medicaid or Medicare.

The public option is problematic because of the prohibitions that the HR3200 bill imposes. For instance if one changes there plan because they modify the policy any anyway or even change jobs then they will be forced to accept the government option. The agenda for the far left is a single payer plan--Pres. Obama said so...even though he conceded that it would take 15-20 years to move this country completely to single payer.

So that's what's wrong with this picture.

Lastly, I hope you don't believe that your father's care would have been better if the Gov't were administering it. Actually for the elderly, it would mean less care, period. A federal health board will sit in judgment of medical procedures and protocols and impose guidelines on all providers for when to withhold certain kinds of care.

For example, the drug Avastin is widely used in America to treat advanced colon cancer. But it costs $50,000 a year — so Canada’s national-health system doesn’t permit its use. As a result, 41 percent of colon-cancer patients in Canada die each year, as opposed to 32 percent in the United States.

Smile, a commenter here has posted several links which explain better than I can what's wrong with the public option.

BLACK INK said...

There is a huge difference between having health insurance and receiving health care in America. Every human being who merely happens to be in the US is provided with health care...some are not able to pay for it, some choose not to pay for it and the great majority do in fact pay for their health care either out of pocket and/or via health insurance. So let's at least call it for what it is.
As for Ms. Grape's nonsense: Whether or not people agree or disagree with one another is one thing; but Grape's position is not supported by the facts and her grammar, syntax and content are grossly lacking in form and substance. She is a fool, not because of her position, but rather because of her very illogical and poor presentation.

MrsGrapevine said...

@ Black:

I haven't called you any names and yet you keep calling me several. You are proving my point, if I don't see things your way then you resort to name calling. I have a degree in English Lit, I know how to right academically, but I'm on a blog using vernacular. If you want to have a writing contest, let's go. I have two short stories published, and one that won an award locally. You keep making assumptions instead of sticking to the issue.

I don't even recall writing to you first. I believe I stated my opinions, and your very first statement addressing me was an insult. So at this point, I don't care what additional names you use to describe me. So, I will let you have it, call me whatever you like, and make whatever assumptions you need to.

At least @smile, has facts to battle with, and I can respect that. Although, I don't agree with him, he's at least putting something on the table.

It's not that liberals don't know the facts, their ideology is very different from yours. I believe everyone in this country should have access to health care no matter their gender, race, creed, age, or previous health condition.

I am paying for those that are uninsured, and my premiums are going up. Medical bills are causing people to go bankrupt. If people are losing their jobs, they are also losing their ability to have health care at an affordable cost.

It's not just about going to the hospital when you're hurt, it's about having wellness, and the ability to afford that health care.

I don't believe in government mandate for a public option, but I do believe there should be a mandate to have insurance, and we should have a choice. Just as we required to have auto insurance.

I am very well aware of the facts on both sides, but at the end of the day I feel their is a moral obligation to provide quality of life for all.

I do think the Republicans have something to contribute, but I have a hard time understanding why they didn't do anything when they had a chance.

MrsGrapevine said...

@ Black:

I tried to go to your blog, instead of hijacking CBW with our arguing, and you know to check out your work, but there is only one post.

Smile said...

Aliah and everyone,

You must take the time to study things out if you're truly interested in what is best for yourself and your family. For too long we have all been very lax in doing so. Anyone can argue, call arguing a debate, yet have more knowledge and facts on celebrities reality shows but know nothing about what is going on in Congress and how past, present, and proposed programs actually impact our lives. Look at the public educational systems. They grow ever more expensive with ever decreasing quality education; they are Government controlled, one payer systems.

The insurance problems you mention are much the same. Due to government control, penalties, and cost given to insurance companies, which must be handed down to the us/our places of employment/in other words consumers. Crippling business in this way (whether it be education, insurance, or your local machine shops and construction companies et al, makes it costly for business which makes it too costly for customers/consumers. There are many examples so RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH.

I pray you'll look at these VERY helpful links.

Let us put away any perceived differences and together study the things that are important to us all.

Best Credit Cards said...

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ar said...

I wasn't going to comment but i read smiles'.. and couldn't help it.

Read as much as you can...

These are quite short and quite revealing.

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msday said...

Re: The ball
Why are you reflecting on situations that occurred probably way before you were born and have no direct effect on you? I don't understand, tell me....have you been accosted by the Klan? Have they blocked your way to the polls?
This argument is old and trite. I am from Generation X. I benefited from all of those people who were hosed down in the streets. Instead of harboring resentment, why don't you show appreciation for the work of your parents and grandparents?Apparently, your parents didn't teach you the rationale behind, "remembering the past." You do so, in a historical sense, but psychologically and spiritually you remain in the present. Your illogical state of anger, will do nothing but eat you alive.

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