Thursday, March 12, 2009

President Barack Obama Has Made Me Very Happy Today.....No Really!!!

Robert Gibbs insinuated today that President Obama will reverse a provision in the omnibus spending bill to terminate school vouchers for underprivileged students in Washington, D.C.. The program allows about 1,700 mostly low-income and minority students to attend private schools as an alterative to the struggling D.C. public school system. When asked if President Obama plans to restore the program’s funding in his full budget, which is currently being drafted, Gibbs said, “whether it's in the budget or in the -- the appropriations process,” the administration will work to make sure “that disruption doesn't take place.”

I'm am elated that I finally have a "warm and fuzzy" feeling towards PSBO (ok, well that was an exaggeration). I think it's great that he reversed that decision! Yeah, PSBO. For today you are a BarackStar!

77 comments:

JudyBright said...

Uhhh Ohhhhhss,

I bet Ms. Pelosi had her panties in a bunch.

awesome

JMK said...

That IS a very positive decision.

Michele Rhee is one of the best things to have ever happened to the D.C. school system.

Rhee's magnate/charter schools, along with the voucher program are good things for D.C.'s kids.

Devon said...

Well, while we are giving out kudos to the New President, I have to say I also approved of him sending more troops to Afghanistan...

I think Pres Obama will be a little more hawkish in foreign matters then we may have thought...certainly morose then the lunatics at moveon or kosdaily or huffpo certainly thought...

I will always give credit where credit is due...

I think Obama does realize Islamic terrorism is a awful reality that America and the Free World will have to continually fight..

Good for him...

uptownsteve said...

And what about the other 60,000 DC public school students?

Conservative Black Woman said...

I don't know UTS. But it's wonderful that those who are blessed enough to have an opportunity to opt out of DCPS continue in their schools.

Certainly, you aren't saying that it should be all or nothing. That would be like to crabs in a barrel, yes?

JMK said...

"Well, while we are giving out kudos to the New President, I have to say I also approved of him sending more troops to Afghanistan... (Devon)


Absolutely AND for signing onto the NSA Surveillance program WITH the Telecom immunities...a vital tool on the domestic anti-terror front.

Ron B said...

I have to agree with UTS on this. Obama gets to have school choice for his kids but the other kids in DC don't. Fix the schools or allow more vouchers for choice of schools.

Currently only 1700 have a choice. What if we were all told that we could only shop at WalMart for our groceries. Let the monies go where the children go without government restrictions.

uptownsteve said...

When I hear black people advocating for vouchers I don't know whether to laugh or get sick.

Do you people realize that vouchers have their origin in the Southern segregated academies that sprung up after Brown v. Board Education?

It was an avenue for whites to avoid going to public school with black people.

Damn. Wake up.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS~You make me wanna cuss. This isn't 1950 and it isn't about white vs. black. This is about black vs. black. DC schools are horrible and the children in them are performing poorly so TO HELL WITH THE JIM CROW SOUTH CRAP THIS IS ABOUT CHILDREN WHO WANT A BETTER EDUCATION. I can not fathom how ANY parent would let there precious child go to DCPS and think they are going to receive a good education unless they are in denial about the state of the schools and most are...sorry I know I'm going to get the beat down. But, I just would not do it-- I did not do it when I lived in DC. I drove against morning and afternoon rush hour traffic to a private school in VA (and I had no voucher-- we sacrificed and did what we need to do to pay the tuition) because I CARE TOO MUCH ABOUT MY CHILD'S EDUCATION! I would have home schooled her before I let her step foot inside DCPS.

Now, Ron B, Sen. Ted Kennedy's office claims the senator opposed the voucher program from the start because it "takes funds from very needy public schools to send students to unaccountable private schools."

Andrew Coulson director of the Center for Educational Freedom at the Cato Institute says:

"But just how needy are D.C. public schools? To find out, I added up all the K-12-related expenditures in the current D.C. budget, excluding preschool, higher-education and charter school items. The total comes to $1.29 billion. Divide that by the official enrollment count of 48,646 students, and it yields a total per-pupil spending figure of $26,555.

To put that number in context, it's about $2,000 more per student than the average tuition actually paid at Sidwell Friends, the prestigious school President Obama's daughters attend. And it is more than fourfold the $5,928 average tuition charged last year by the private schools serving voucher students.

What's more, the Opportunity Scholarship program does not take a dime away from D.C. public schools. On the contrary, the program brings with it an additional $13 million annually for the public schools - as part of a "sweetener" deal required to gain local and Democratic support at the time of its passage in 2004. Democrats apparently believe that a city with a $1.29 billion education honey pot requires an extra $13 million sweetener.

Needless to say, all that money does little good. The voucher students perform at least as well as public school students academically, and voucher parents are significantly happier with their chosen private schools than public school parents are with theirs, according to the Education Department's official report on the program released last year.


The long and the short of it is more money is spent per child on DCPS students than the money spent to kid receiving vouchers and they aren't performing in better.

Money isn't the problem with DCPS! And if I tell you what the real problem is then UTS will beat me up verbally and I not strong enough for a beatdown today.

uptownsteve said...

So improve the damn schools by making teachers, administrators and students accountable.

Public schools fail poor and minority students for a number of reasons, mainly this country's inadequate and savagely unequal structure for allocating public school resources between and among schools and school districts. Voucher programs will worsen that structural inequity, draining money from the poorest public schools and providing public subsidies to private schools that tend to privilege middle- and upper-class students over children from economically disadvantaged backgrounds.

Vouchers will only continue the ethnic, class and racial stratification that had already divided this nation between haves and have nots.

I'm all for Michelle Rhee's plan to hold teachers and administrators feet to the fire.

To directly award achievement and punish failure.

I believe DC teachers should be subject to competency testing and evaluation as well.

Vouchers are not the answer and that's already been proven in places like Milwaukee and Florida where they've been in place and have demonstrated no discernable improvement.

uptownsteve said...

"And if I tell you what the real problem is then UTS will beat me up verbally and I not strong enough for a beatdown today."

What's the problem then CBW?

Black people?

Aren't YOU black?

JudyBright said...

What about parents actually getting a choice on where to send their kids? That's the best accountability I can think of. Why should designated public schools get a monopoly?

Conservative Black Woman said...
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Conservative Black Woman said...

"What's the problem then CBW?

Black people?

Aren't YOU black?"

Yes, I'm black and the problem isn't black people. The problem is people who for whatever reason don't value excellence in education and allow their children to bring home bad grades, and perform poorly in school. If a child performs poorly year after year after year and YOU as a parent don't get involved in someway YOU and YOUR child are the PROBLEM!

While I agree that monies may or may not be allocated properly and teachers should be subjected to competency testing and evaluation -- I'll be damned if I would let my child suffer the collateral damage until the "system" gets it together and I breath a sigh of relief for those 1700 children who are out of the DCPS!

uptownsteve said...

"What about parents actually getting a choice on where to send their kids? That's the best accountability I can think of. Why should designated public schools get a monopoly?"

How many poor DC parents are getting this choice????

Conservative Black Woman said...

As many as apply for it.

DJ Black Adam said...

Fascinating.

JMK said...

"Obama gets to have school choice for his kids but the other kids in DC don't. Fix the schools or allow more vouchers for choice of schools." (Ron B)


The first step in improving school systems is introducing competition - charter schools, magnate schools.

An argument for "all or nothing" is an argument in favor of the disreputable status quo.

Michelle Rhee is doing a GREAT job, but she's been fighting an uphill battle against the powerful and politically corrupt teacher's unions since she took control of D.C.'s schools system.

Right now, the system is so broken, you have to start with some competition and THEN you can move on to closing underperforming schools and jettisoning poorly performing teachers.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS & DJBA~ Which is more preferable in your opinions:

Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth.

and likewise

Equal distribution of sub-par education or Unequal distribution of superlative education.

And do either of you believe that those individuals in the first categories are capable of moving to the second categories by sheer determination and perserverance. Personally, I believe cream always rises to the top!

JudyBright said...

Ideally all kids would. If CBW is right, then anyone can apply. Even if this is not the case, it's better that some have hope than none. It's a starting place to build on.

I think every kid in the country should have this type of choice. Public school/teacher union monopolies would improve real quick. I've seen it in Columbus,OH where charter schools have popped up everywhere in the city over the last 7 years or so. The CPS is finally getting in gear.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth."

False dichotomy.

DJ Black Adam said...
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DJ Black Adam said...

@Judy:

You're in Columbus? I would have had coffee with you had I known, I was just down there last week end for the Arnold World Classic, 3 of my sons were in the NAGA tournament there...I even got to meet the governator! Very nice man.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"Equal distribution of sub-par education or Unequal distribution of superlative education."

False Dichotomy...the remix...

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

"False dichotomy."

A rightwing specialty.

What these righties need to get through their skulls is that public schools are not big corporations.

Voucher/Charter schools are the misbegotten brainchild of the right. So were national testing programs, such as those imposed by "No Child's behind".

It's not the liberal's fault that your testing program exposed the dysfunctionality of your Voucher/Charter program.

When my company creates a new software tool to manage and analyze public relations activities, we haven't ruined anyone’s future; we haven't stolen quality years of education from an impressionable young mind. And nobody gets hurt if the software proves to be unmarketable forcing the company to collapse...

Except us grownups.

What you (and I'm speaking groupwise here) are trying to do is to screw untold thousands of black children out of a proper education.

This will not be done not because of any altruistic interest in improving the lot of these children - but for the cynical reason of establishing a back door for tax dollars to pay private academies which most inner city children will not attend.

PERIOD.

Conservative Black Woman said...

What's false about those dichotomies? I am aware that these are layered issues but the fundamental dichotomy which I have spelled out are at the core.

JudyBright said...

How can you screw someone out of something they never had a chance of getting in the first place?????????

Conservative Black Woman said...

"How can you screw someone out of something they never had a chance of getting in the first place?????????"

JudyBright that sounds harsh but I understand what you mean. If I am not driven enough to do what is necessary to acquire wealth then I will never have it unless someone gives it to me. Likewise, no one can force an education on you if you don't want it and no one can stop it or take it away from you if you are determined to get it especially in this age of information.

uptownsteve said...

"If I am not driven enough to do what is necessary to acquire wealth then I will never have it unless someone gives it to me."

You keep on drinking that rightwing kool-aid sweetie and you're going to end up looking like Walter Williams in drag.

CBW you really don't have any idea how the US GOVERMENT directly assisted the urban white ethnic and the southern white ascend into the middle class after WWII with programs like the GI BIll (blacks still could not attend most American colleges) and through the low interest suburban housing loans(Levittowns etc) which were denied to blacks????

Leaving the inner cities to poor people of color.

The blacks who were able to get out of the inner city during were mainly the ones who got civil service and government jobs.

The ones who depended on the low skill decent paying factory jobs became unemployed when those industries left or went under.

Leaving two generations of poverty, unemployment, broken families, children making children, rampant crime...you name it.

Why has the Republican dominated government of 6 of the last 8 years seriously considered a new Homestead Act to revitalize the dying rust belt and Plain states, but no plan to revitalize the inner cities?

Conservative Black Woman said...

"This will not be done not because of any altruistic interest in improving the lot of these children - but for the cynical reason of establishing a back door for tax dollars to pay private academies which most inner city children will not attend.

Well, at least you answered the question UTS. Better to have equal educational squalor for all than to give some an opportunity for something better. Wow, how enlightened you are!

Well even if you libs are successful in rescinding these programs the cream will still rise to the top.

JMK said...

"Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth."

"False dichotomy." (DJBA)


Maybe you're not aware that you're misusing that term.


THAT ("An Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth") is NOT a "false dichotomy," as THOSE are INDEED the ONLY two choices in this situation.

The private property-driven, market-based economy delivers far MORE wealth/prosperity, albeit far more inequitably dispersed, since those property rights mandate that those who create the most wealth also KEEP a disproportionate share.

Command or government-run economies ALWAYS fail because, in the absence of incentives (KEEPING moe of what you earn) LESS wealth is created....THAT'S why command economies always disperse MORE poverty and deprivation than do market-based ones.

That's why the freest economy in the worls today (Hong Kong's) has the LOWEST Misery Index in the world (6.0) while comamnd economies, even in resource-rich nations like Venezuela have such high ones (39.6).

Market-based economies ALWAYS create MORE wealth and prosperity, while comamnd economies ALWAYS produce MORE poverty and deprivation.

There is no "third path."

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Why has the Republican dominated government of 6 of the last 8 years seriously considered a new Homestead Act to revitalize the dying rust belt and Plain states, but no plan to revitalize the inner cities?"

RUKM? Have you been to DC lately there are revitalization programs going on all over the place. Revitalizing the inner city equals gentrification anyway and black folks are not utimately helped they are just moved to another part of the city. While I know the importance of history, it seems immaterial to me when these children need help in 2009. Those who want it should get it and to hell with the motives of the past or even current motives. I couldn't care less which group receives tax dollars if it means that 1700 children will receive a proper education.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Oh yeah, UTS, thank you for the Walter William comparison I am flattered because the man is brilliant.

uptownsteve said...

"Have you been to DC lately there are revitalization programs going on all over the place."

WHAT???????????

Gentrification is forcing working class people of color out of DC.

The only people that will be left are very rich whites and very poor blacks and hispanics (and don't tell me you see the madness and carnage going in Mt. Pleasant and Columbia Hts.)

I'm talking about enterprise zones for businesses in the hood.

Encouraging manufacturers to come to the inner city with tax incentives.

Look at the new Homestead Act.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1342240

Why won't they do the same for the 'hood?

Might be because of the complexions of the people in the 'hood?

Ya think?

uptownsteve said...

"Oh yeah, UTS, thank you for the Walter William comparison I am flattered because the man is brilliant."

LOL!!!

Everytime I start to think "maybe CBW ain't as big a nut as I think she is" you come up with stuff like this.

Do you know that Williams actually wrote an adoring blurb for a book by a white supremacist????

The man is SICK.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS~No argument from me on that. I'm sure race has something to do with it. My point, don't throw ALL the babies out with the bath water.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Do you know that Williams actually wrote an adoring blurb for a book by a white supremacist????

The man is SICK."

Nope, enlighten me. What book?

uptownsteve said...

Jared Taylor's work, Paved With Good Intentions, was praised by economist Walter E. Williams of George Mason University. "If racism is ever going to die a well-deserved death, we will have to thank many courageous individuals, and Jared Taylor is one of them," he wrote.

DJ Black Adam said...
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DJ Black Adam said...

"Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth."

"False dichotomy." (DJBA)

To which JMK replies “Maybe you're not aware that you're misusing that term.”

Maybe you're not aware of what the term means, FALSE CHOICE, which is what you and your rightwing sycophantic ilk are generally only capable of presenting to frame your silly and often times ridicules arguments in. I think you are intelligent enough to know that there are more that two choices in this question, but to dogmatic and silly to admit it.

Again, CBW gave a False choice, in other words, as Tupac would say: “I reject your deposit…”

Ye gods man, calm yourself, you're not the first and won't be the last to be intellectually outpaced by me...don't take it personal, shesh...

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Ye gods man, calm yourself, you're not the first and won't be the last to be intellectually outpaced by me...don't get personal, shesh..."

DJBA~lol...that's funny not because it's true but because you can't contain your "inner snob" I stuggle with that as well but I have to often remind myself that pride comes before the fall and reel that little "air" in.

But, I'm still struggling to understand how you determine that I gave you a false choice? Or, do you reject it because you don't process that way personally. If that's the case then the dicotomy isn't false it just that YOU don't choose to process it that way.

JudyBright said...

"How can you screw someone out of something they never had a chance of getting in the first place?????????"

I feel silly quoting myself, but what I meant was the schools these kids are trapped in. UTS seemed to imply that these kids have access to good education now via public schools. What I was trying to say is that what would we be screwing these kids out of exactly? The crap education they're offered now?

Does that make sense?

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

“DJBA~lol...that's funny not because it's true but because you can't contain your "inner snob" I stuggle with that as well but I have to often remind myself that pride comes before the fall and reel that little "air" in.”

lol, MOST of that bravado is in jest, the rest, well like I told JMK, people like him make oh sooooo easy. And as for “falling”, I don’t have “pride” I have a blessed assurance of wisdom, not as man gives, but as the Spirit of God gives. I see false dichotomies and other rudimentary garden variety distraction Jedi mind tricks quite easily, because I use discernment and quite often just good old fashion common sense.

“But, I'm still struggling to understand how you determine that I gave you a false choice? Or, do you reject it because you don't process that way personally. If that's the case then the dicotomy isn't false it just that YOU don't choose to process it that way.”

Lololololololololololololololololololololo!! That one made my day. Verily, I needed a good laugh today. Let me, as Method Man would say: “Break it down to the bone gristle, ill speakin’ scud missile heat seekin, Johnny blazin – night mares like west craven, brothers gunnin, my third eye seen it coming – before it happened”

O.K., you (and no offense extremist, be they Conservative or Liberal) have a need to present things in such dire black and white terms because it’s the only way you can communicate complicated ideas to your often times simple minded respective bases (people like JMK for example) and further to the point manipulate said bases.

The choice you’re presenting is in fact, one of those silly false choices that the right and the left often utilize. Obviously I believe if the WILL is there we can raise the standards in schools across the board, thereby allowing better access to educational tools to improve individual lives and society in general without lowering standards and ill affecting the “gifted”.

Now if you want me to specify how this could be done, that would take an article of an in itself, suffice to say that the two choices you presented create a fictitious black and white choice, where the truth is quite more complex.

JudyBright said...

@DJBA

So, is it false that there are dichotomies since the truth is more complex?

I have never been to the Arnold Classic, but may be curious enough some day to attend.

I just spent 45min on my elliptical, so if I keep it up I may look like I fit in by next year :)

DJ Black Adam said...

@Judy:

“So, is it false that there are dichotomies since the truth is more complex?”

In this case, that truth allows for more choices than the two that are being presented fraudulently as absolutes. However; there are CHOICES that can truly be boiled down to this or that.

Jus saying…

Conservative Black Woman said...

DJBA~Thank you for breaking it down to the bone grisle (I like that and will be using at a later day so h/t in advance). You write:"O.K., you (and no offense extremist, be they Conservative or Liberal) have a need to present things in such dire black and white terms because it’s the only way you can communicate complicated ideas to your often times simple minded respective bases (people like JMK for example) and further to the point manipulate said bases."

I take exception JMK is absolutely not simple-minded and I conceded that these issues are layered but the reason I and other "extremist" present things in dire black in white terms is not because of our own mental incapacity but because of the absolute absurdity of most liberal positions. It's absurd to deny 1700 kids an opportunity and exposure to a better education because all 6000 can't have the same.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

“I take exception JMK is absolutely not simple-minded…”

I will concede that JMK’s simple mindedness is a matter of opinion (or public record as far as I’m concerned, BUT, I digress…).

“It's absurd to deny 1700 kids an opportunity and exposure to a better education because all 6000 can't have the same.”

It is further absurd to posit that in the most prosperous nation in written human history that the actuality you present, HAS to be an “actuality”. I submit, that it does not need to or have to be.

Conservative Black Woman said...

DJBA~ I didn't posit that it has to be this way. I posit that it is that way now and what is best is to lessen the collateral damage done by the system (DCPS)as it is now. If 1700 proverbial sheep can be saved from the proverbial slaughter then it is absurd not to regardless of the ancillary issues.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

“DJBA~ I didn't posit that it has to be this way. I posit that it is that way now and what is best is to lessen the collateral damage done by the system (DCPS)as it is now. If 1700 proverbial sheep can be saved from the proverbial slaughter then it is absurd not to regardless of the ancillary issues.”

On that we can and do agree. I see no reason, nor did I suggest, that 1700 have to go back to a horrible system because the other 6,000 are stuck. I believe that the other 6,000 can be provided better options if existing funds are applied with more accountability and oversight, and new fund applied with a specific purpose.

BUT, that’s me…

Conservative Black Woman said...

DJBA~Well then I'm glad we ironed that out because I'm in complete agreement with you on that.

JudyBright said...

60,000

We just vaporized 54,000 kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ3Oz5JVKs

;-)

Conservative Black Woman said...

oops, you are absolutely right Judy Bright. An your video link drove the point home....lol!!!

Conservative Black Woman said...

I meant and your video link....

Constructive Feedback said...

CBW - why do you spend valuable time debating with WhiteBowieSteve on this subject?

WhiteBowieSteve lives in the town of Bowie, MD - away from the full brunt of the impact of the Progressive school system in the rest of Prince Georges County and, heaven forbid - Baltimore Maryland.

With his own family removed from their "skin in the game" Steve is able to obfuscate and pontificate.

[quote]And what about the other 60,000 DC public school students?[/quote]

This statement above is so critical for inspection.

You see Steve asks "What about the other 60,000 students in Washington DC. He asks this because he is against the small escape hatch which this voucher program provides these students that make use of it.

One thing that we WILL NOT HEAR FROM STEVE is the demand for ACCOUNTABILITY - where the people, the PARTY and the IDEOLOGY behind the failing schools in DC be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for the damage that they are doing to these next generation of children.

Steve hates Conservatives more than he loves to have the school system to be CORRECTED.

Thus he is like the old Democrat Governor who stood in the doorway of the school to keep Blacks out except STEVE is standing in the door way to KEEP THEM TRAPPED INSIDE the school that is aflame with failure.

Steve cares more about the apparent "scheme" that the conservatives are doing as they purport to care about Black kids now RATHER THAN expressing any particular concern about HIS IDEOLOGY and how their scheme has been hurting Black kids for going on 4 decades.

Constructive Feedback said...

I'm sorry CBW was this story about the failed Democratically controlled school system in Washington DC or the one in Clayton County GA?

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/18870702/detail.html

I have to give the DC progressive one thing.....they never managed to lose the accreditation of their schools, regardless of how shabby they are.

CBW - more than being pissed off over the RESULTS I am pissed over the people who are so Ideologically Bigoted that they don't strike out against those of their favored ideology that have FAILED their permanent interests.

JMK said...

"Jared Taylor's work, Paved With Good Intentions, was praised by economist Walter E. Williams of George Mason University. "If racism is ever going to die a well-deserved death, we will have to thank many courageous individuals, and Jared Taylor is one of them," he wrote." (UTS)



You're an idiot.

I KNOW Jared Taylor.

I've met and spoken with him a number of times.

Born to diplomatic parents, raised in Japan. Speaks fluent Japanese and four other languages.

Paved With Good Intentions is NOT a controversial book at all.

EVERY last incident mentioned in it is painstakingly documented.

Dr. Walter E Williams is a brilliant economist and Professor Emeritus of Economics at George Mason University, YOU (UTS) are a dolt.

JMK said...

"Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth." (CBW)


"False dichotomy." (DJBA)


"THAT ("An Equal distribution of poverty or Unequal distribution of wealth") is NOT a "false dichotomy," as THOSE are INDEED the ONLY two choices in this situation. (JMK)


"Maybe you're not aware of what the term means, FALSE CHOICE, which is what you and your rightwing sycophantic ilk are generally only capable of presenting to frame your silly and often times ridicules arguments..." (DJBA)

No, YOU misused that term....as you've consistently misused others.

I've refrained from correcting every single misuse because you don't warrant "the UTS treatment" - you're a less vile individual and far less of an overt racial bigot.

BUT yes, as CBW correctly stated, there are ONLY TWO possible choices - the "Equal distribution of poverty" via socialism and heavy-handed Keynesianism, OR the "Unequal distribution of wealth" via the regulated market under Supply Side (low tax rates, limited government intervention and incentivizing risk/investment by letting investors keep MORE of the profits from the Capital they successfully put at risk.

Those ARE the tweo choices...the TWO possible paths and their respective inevitable outcomes.

JMK said...

"Ye gods man, calm yourself, you're not the first and won't be the last to be intellectually outpaced by me...don't take it personal, shesh..." (DJBA)


Try making an argument goofey.

An argument requires evidence, preferably documented by evidence (provided links), as I've linked to the Misery Index website that gives the Misery Index over the years clearly showing that more Keynesian periods ALWAYS have higher Misery Indexes, while more Supply Side periods have much lower Misery Indexes.

It's OK to have opinions, BUT an opinion NEVER counts as "an argument or "making one's case."

JMK said...

"An argument requires evidence, preferably documented evidence (provided links)..."

Conservative Bill said...

I agree with you as usual. Parents should have a choice of where to send their kids to school. However, Obama has said one thing and done another many times, so don't take him at his word until it happens. His promises don't mean a thing.

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Try making an argument goofey."

I don't do exercises in futility cretin. There is no point in making an argument with your obvious lack of wanting to acknowledge what SHOULD BE obvious (and is to anyone with a cursory understanding of the sociological actualities in the United States).

No matter how you slice it you reduce this to two choices that are convenient for your silly arguments. You frame the foundation of your argument on a fiction; you have no credibility for me to even take you seriously.

JMK said...

You're NOT being asked to make an argument or backing up your erroneous opinions FOR my sake, but for your own, or at least for the sake/value of your opinions.

For instance, IF your opinion is that Reagan did not improve the economy and I post a link to the Misery Indexes year-to-year that prove that he DID exactly that (which, of course, I HAVE), then YOUR opinions are rendered baseless.

See: http://www.miseryindex.us/

See how that works?

Absent any evidence (links) from you to show that (1) there were other economic parameters more vital then the Misery Index AND (2) that such parameters (whatever they might be - the Dow Index, GDP growth, etc) did worsen under Reagan (no such evidence exists), then your rants are mere UNSUBSTANTIATED opinion, while my fact-backed replies are documented facts.

It's the same with your view that Jesus' "Render Onto Caeser..." quote meant, "Pay your taxes and submit to any rightful temporal (manmade) authority," when it is very clear from the historical context of those times that it is NOT.

What most historians agree on is that Jesus, like John the Baptist was part of a virulently anti-Roman (anti-Colonial) segment of the Hebrews and, in fact, "the principal reason why Pilate crucifed Jesus was for his opposition to Rome's taxes. Evidence of Jesus' guilt could have been presented showing he had interfered with Rome’s collection of taxes by calling Matthew (a.k.a. Levi) away from his tax booth in the midst of his duties (Matthew 9:9). Pilate may have known or could have been told that Jesus had induced one of his chief tax collectors, Zacchaeus, to repent and resign his leading position in a Roman territory where Pilate was personally responsible for tax collections (Luke 19:1-10). Evidence could have been introduced showing that Jesus spoke disparagingly of tax collectors on several occasions (Matthew 5:46, 18:17), even likening tax collectors to prostitutes (Matthew 21:32). Jesus was known to enjoy the company of tax collectors, for instance at dinners in the homes of Matthew and Zacchaeus, so he may have influenced others to quit their profession to follow him."

SEE: http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/uploads/JesusMarch17th08-_2.pdf

America's Founders (many of them devout Christians) seem to agree with those historians, as THAT is clearly how they "justified breaking the bonds with their rulers in Great Britain?" After all, weren't they under a scriptural obligation to render unto Caeser (King George) in their era?

Bottom-line, your inability to prove/document your case or provide any documented evidence for your opinions (As I routinely do my own) kind of highlights your inability to "hold up your end."

You know what I think?

I don't think you really believe in the things you espouse, at least not very strongly, if at all and that's why you don't question your own beliefs, nor seek proofs of them, nor, worse still, accept clear proofs of their being wrong, when those proofs are offered.

That doesn't make you "an elitist", it makes you, sad to say, a closed-minded buffoon.

hiscrivener said...

Public school deserves to be championed, but not any more than individual freedom to achieve a quality education.

D.C. is in a precarious position in that it is the ONLY government whose budget is run by Capitol Hill, not Town Hall.

This was an act that has been bellowed by the Mayor for years only because the struggle for strong single women has become a clamorous shout to teach the kids instead of respecting the sanctity of school.

CBW is right on! This is not 1950, not the days of reconstruction and definitely not the Movement.

This is a day where public education is in peril, which has forced parents to consider what's really important: my kids or what I want for my kids.

Thanks for the post, young woman.

Peace,
HiScrivener

JMK said...

"D.C. is in a precarious position in that it is the ONLY government whose budget is run by Capitol Hill, not Town Hall." (hiscrivener)


I know this isn't the focal point of your post, but that issue should have been resolved in a way that BOTH respects the resident's voting rights AND the Constitution.

It would seem that retrocession (returning the residential parts of D.C. to Virginia and Maryland) would solve that.

I understand that BOTH Virginia and Maryland oppose retrocession, but THAT seems the most logical solution, given that pesky Constitutional "District Clause", found in Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution states:

"[The Congress shall have Power] To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States."

D.C. never SHOULD'VE been allowed to have a residential area.

The best possible solution now and the one in keeping with the Constitution, would be to assign those residents voting districts in either Maryland or Virginia, splittingn the District between the two.

As for the schools, competition makes any market better. Throughout the country up to now, the focus on American education has wrongly been focused on the needs of the teachers, which are often at odds with the needs of its consumers/students.

The needs of the consumer, in this case the students, must ALWAYS come first.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"The best possible solution now and the one in keeping with the Constitution, would be to assign those residents voting districts in either Maryland or Virginia, splittingn the District between the two."

I can't imagine that ever happening but if it does the dynamics which follow would be soooooo interesting.

JMK said...

"I can't imagine that ever happening but if it does the dynamics which follow would be soooooo interesting." (CBW)


They would certainly be that.

But given that the Capital cannot be housed in any one state due to Constitutional constraints borne of the fear of undue local influence, then retrocession would seem to be the most workable compromise.

Without question, both Maryland and Virginia oppose that.

But I don't see the status quo as being tenable.

DJ Black Adam said...

Data venia JMK…

“You're NOT being asked to make an argument or backing up your erroneous opinions FOR my sake, but for your own, or at least for the sake/value of your opinions.”

Maybe you do not understand me. I am not trying to make any other point BUT the point that I have made, that being, the information you provide offers two choices as absolutes, which are not absolutes.

That is intellectually fraudulent as you base YOUR overall argument on a fiction.

Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.

JMK said...

"the information you provide offers two choices as absolutes, which are not absolutes." (DJBA)


Again, that's an unsubstantitated (and wrong) opinion on your part.

There are ONLY two economic paths - the government-run (Command economy) - a failure everywhere it's been tried, and the regulated market-based economy that is the default economy of the modern industrilaized world.

There is no "third way."

Within the regulated market-based economy, there are two poles - the Supply Side pole (which espouses less regulation, less government intervention, lower tax rates, etc.) and the Keynesian pole (which espouses more regulation, more government intrusion, higher tax rates, etc.)...but BOTH of those are schools of thought WITHIN the market-based economy.

The fact that you don't KNOW of any "third way" pretty much proves my point....that there is none. Take my word on that and don't waste your time looking for something that doesn't exist.

So, CBW correctly stated, there are ONLY TWO possible choices - the "Equal distribution of poverty" via socialism and heavy-handed Keynesianism, OR the "Unequal distribution of wealth" via the regulated market under Supply Side (low tax rates, limited government intervention and incentivizing risk/investment by letting investors keep MORE of the profits from the Capital they successfully put at risk.

Those ARE the ONLY two choices...the ONLY TWO possible paths and their respective inevitable outcomes.

See?

Claiming there are MORE than those two paths and outcomes and proving that wrong-headed assertion are two different things.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

“There are ONLY two economic paths - the government-run (Command economy) - a failure everywhere it's been tried, and the regulated market-based economy that is the default economy of the modern industrilaized world. There is no "third way."

To that I say, Vox nihili.

Your lack of failing to be able to see the obvious actuality is your shortcoming not my problem. Here is the problem, you conservatives act as if there is only our current capitalistic system for all things, where everything except core essentials (that you define as “core”) are free market enterprises OR Soviet Style communism, an Tovarisch, that just ain’t true, and is a deception, a scare tactic from the right, a FICTION.

No one is clamoring for socialism, however; some things should be socialized, as some things already are.

JMK said...

"Vox nihili????

Cry nothing?!

That's not an argument, it's a non sequitor.

So, now you're "NOT making an argument" in two languages?

"...you conservatives act as if there is only our current capitalistic system for all things, where everything except core essentials (that you define as “core”) are free market enterprises OR Soviet Style communism, an Tovarisch, that just ain’t true, and is a deception, a scare tactic from the right, a FICTION.

"No one is clamoring for socialism, however; some things should be socialized, as some things already are." (DJBA)


Of COURSE, "NO ONE is clamoring for socialism," SOCIALISM (the command-economy) has failed miserably EVERYWHERE it's been tried.

Keynesianism is a MORE REGULATED (more "socialistic") market-based economy.

Western Europe with its low growth, high tax, high unemployment economies are Keynesian economies, as was America's from around 1964 thru 1980.

Here in the USA, that decade and a half of Keynesian economic policy ended with a record high 22 pt Misery Index and a whopping 23.5% prime lending rate!

By like token, one of our best economic periods occurred when the Gingrich Congres forced the first federal budget cuts in over 100 years on a reluctant Bill Clinton. Those BUDGET (spending) CUTS, coupled with the HUGE SAVINGS generated by welfare reform and workfare AND the incredible amount of investment spurred by SLASHING the Capital Gains Tax RATE by 1/3 delivered our best economy in over four decades!

So, yeah, as CBW correctly pointed out, there are ONLY two paths, even within the regulated market-based economy that has become the default economy of the modern industrial state - Keynesianism (which divides up a lot more MISERY) or Supply Side policies (that divides up a lot more prosperity).

The Military, police powers, etc., should ALL be carried out by government.

But government is NOT nearly as efficient or effective at say, delivering packages as the private sector, or providing ANY goods and services (ie. food, clothing, housing, healthcare, etc).

In EVERY country where government-run healthcare exists, there is also healthcare rationing and restrictions on procedures, based on age, value to society, etc.

Here in the U.S., because Corporate America rightfully wants out from under that oppressive burden, we ARE almost certainly going to get some form of "Universal Healthcare," although ALMOST CERTAINLY with private insurance available to those willing and able to afford it in order to avoid that rationing and those restrictions.

DJ Black Adam said...

vox nihili - "voice of nothing"

"Useless or ambiguous phrase or statement.'

In other words, balderdash, bull spit, etc., etc.

JMK said...

"vox nihili - "voice of nothing" (DJBA)
<
<
Ahhh, I see the problem, sloppy (inaccurate) phrseology.

The exact phrase for "voice and nothing more," or "voice of nothing" is vox et praeterea nihil.

Now that that's out of the way, we're still left with the demonstrable FACT that there are ONLY two possible economic systems - the command economy and the market-based economy, we've all come to know and love.

WITHIN the market-based economy, there are exist only two poles, two distinct and different schools or paths - the Supply Side school of thought that favors an open, easier to access market, lower tax rates, less government intrusion and the Keynesian school that favors a more tightly regulated market, higher tax rates, more government intrusion, etc.

So, we're left with the fact that CBW was right and you wrong about her offering a "false choice."

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

If I meant "vox et praeterea nihil." I would have said "vox et praeterea nihil." not my problem that you carry over you lack of seeing things in proper grammatical or literary context beyond just scripture.

That being said, though I am sure you have reasons for wanting CBW to be right (as it would mean that you are by mutual implication right), you two are wrong as too…right shoes (pardon the pun).

The two choices that she initially presented regarding education were not and are not the only choices, and I more than once her have shown ANOTHER valid choice.

Secondly, I stand by my assertion to you, that you, as most dogmatic right and / or left wingers do, present false dichotomies to try to make fictional absolutes to further your goals. If you don’t care to admit that actuality, is not my concern.

Thirdly, I agree with the Lucas critique of the economic system you hold so dear, that being that Keynesian economics requires a willfully ignorant dependence of “remarkably foolish and short-sighted behavior from people, which totally contradicts the economic understanding of their behavior at a micro level.” Conveniently ignoring real business cycles.

So again, I reject your deposit.

JMK said...

"If I meant "vox et praeterea nihil..." (DJBA)
<
<
Obviously your ability to make an argument is about as good your understanding of Latin - which is to say, not very good at all.

In FACT, vox nihili is NOT "voice of nothing", it literally means voice, cry, shout - nothing.

On the other hand, "vox et praeterea nihil" actually means - "A voice that means/signifies nothing."
<
<
For over a decade I've looked for Keynesian periods in which the economy imporved...and found NONE.

I've also searched for countries where Keynesian policies improved those economies and found none.

In the U.S. the Reagan administration inherited the worst U.S. economy since the Great Depression (a record high 22 pt Misery Index and a 23.5% prime lending rate) and dropped that Misery Index EVERY EYAR until it reached SINGLE DIGITS in 1986, where it stayed throughout the rest of his tenure, while also seeing the prime lending rate drop to single digits, as well.

Same thing with the most recent Supply Side period in the U.S. - the Gingrich Revolution cut the federal budget for the first time in over 100 years! Those spending cuts, coupled with the incredible savings from welfare reform and workfare AND the incredible amount of investment that flooded the economy once the Cap Gains RATE was slashed FROM 30% TO 20% delivered the booming late 1990s and some of the lowest Misery Indexes in four decades.

Post-WW II Keynesian policies delivered the economic malaise of the 1970s, Bush Sr's four stright double digit Misery Index years (10.2 pt avg) and the current mess.

It's safe to say, (1) there are indeed ONLY those 2 choices and (2) one (Keynesianism) divides up more misery, while Supply Side policies tend to divide up more prosperity.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Obviously your ability to make an argument is about as good your understanding of Latin - which is to say, not very good at all."

Oy Veh, now you are well out of your depth Tovarisch. I understand Latin very well, so it apears that I am a bit more well read then you when it comes to that sort of thing (though I am not surprised).

Do you really want me to point out the finer points of Latin grammar and euphemisms to you? Like if I say you're talking B/S, I don't literally mean that Cow dung is coming out of your mouth. So, when I say "vox nihili" or "voice of nothing" in literature it means "your mouth is running but you ain't said shi#+ yet". Another example is the word "alias" which LITERALLY means "Otherwise" however when we say that "so and so" has an "alias" we don't mean literally they have an "otherwise". Capice'?

Shessh man, let it go, lets just leave the Latin and the Scriptures to me, and you can be the "economics" expert since admittedly NONE of my Masteries include that discipline, whereas, the masteries I do possess require Latin and Hermeneutics.

Now since you MIGHT be able to redeem yourself in the socio-economics discussion, albeit absent the “socio” part; why not saty in your lane Tovarisch?

You wrote:

"I've also searched for countries where Keynesian policies improved those economies and found none."

O.K., I'm your huckleberry, tell us about these countries where these policies have failed, which BTW, I don't believe Keynesian polices or supply side policies are by themselves a solution, but I will digress for now, tell us more...

JMK said...

That's NOT a argument, DJ.

And claiming victory in't the same as earning it.

I'm not debating or arguing here. I'm pointing out the FACT that CBW was right about the 2 choices and you being wrong on that score - she was right, you were wrong.

You also empoyed poor or incomplete phraseology in your Latin constructs.

The latter is a side note and not a point of contention.

Keynesian policies failed US, right here in the USA.

We had a decade and a half of uninterrupted Keynesian economic policy from 1964 til 1981 and the result was the WORST U.S. economy since the Great Depression. carter presided over the collapse of Keynesian economic policy, with a four year term that averaed a whopping 16.8 pt average annual Misery Index, culminating in a record high 21 pt Misery Index for 1980, a 21.5% prime lending rate - STAGFLATION (double digit inflation, unemployment and interest rates).

It's failed in Western Europe, routinely delivering double digit unemployment and inflation rates far higher than the U.S. over the past 25 years.

Indeed Supply Side policies tend to spread MORE PROSPERITY to MORE people, while Keynesian policies tend to spread MORE MISERY to more people.