Saturday, March 21, 2009

Democracy Is The Road To Socialism - Who Knew? by JB Williams

This article by JB Williams is long but well worth the read so I have re-printed it here. It is an exhaustive analysis of what has taken place in this country and examines whether or not we have reached the point of no return.

"I once said, - "Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you," - and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you." - Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev

Thomas Jefferson correctly warned against "democracy" as a form of self-governance, properly defining it as "nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."

Marx's proletariat, the working class, organized by trade unions and trained to vote themselves gifts from the public trough, replacing the representative republic with a pure democracy via rewritten history and ideologically redefined words, will rule by simple majority mob, forcing its will upon the minority, the American taxpayer.

Once fully indoctrinated in entitlement mentality and taught to vote themselves access to the public trough, the proletariat could be counted upon to use their democratic power to install socialism, - (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

And so it is, a brief 233 years after the birth of the greatest free nation ever known to mankind.

Khrushchev knew, and so did men like Stalin, Lenin and Marx. It's only the average American who was blind to what was happening to their nation by slow but steady process, or should I say, progress...

"The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses." - Vladimir Lenin

The leftist American press so wanted "change" that they turned their collective head from every reasonable query regarding a freshman senator with a blank résumé and a past so secret that he dare not even allow his birth or college records to become public. A man so surrounded by well-known evil doers, that the only thing on his résumé is a long list of ill-fated associations with terrorists, criminals and anti-American thugs.

Still, the American press went so far as to label this man a "messiah," a savior... who would forever change our nation, righting all the wrongs of freedom and capitalism. Never in history has a more unqualified candidate sought the Oval Office. And this guy won...

"There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel." - "To rely upon conviction, devotion, and other excellent spiritual qualities; that is not to be taken seriously in politics." - Vladimir Lenin

And so, in 2006 and 2008, the people democratically selected what they perceive to be useful scoundrels. Politicians they believe to be of their ilk, serving the proletariat interest, pandering to their entitled desires. The press told them that Obama was the "messiah" who would free them from their mortgages, car payments and economic limitations.

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." - Vladimir Lenin

It took congressional leftists almost a hundred years to dig the nation a trillion dollars in debt via an endless stream of social programs aimed at engineering the perfect society where anything goes and only the taxpayer is responsible.

It took the new "messiah" and an unbridled Democratic Socialist congress lead by the Congressional Progressive Caucus, only sixty days in power to quadruple that figure,
burying the entire nation in over $4 trillion in taxpayer debt and destroying what was left of the free market system that has fed the world for two hundred years.

The enormous spending spree will result in massive taxation; the printing of trillions in unsupported funny money will drive the US currency down to the value of a peso.

The bourgeoisie, (in Marxist theory) the class that, in contrast to the proletariat or wage-earning class, is primarily concerned with property values; will be crushed between the millstones of taxation and inflation, as the federal need for more private assets to keep pace with the skyrocketing cost of social engineering, strips away every last freedom from the only people in the nation capable of picking up the tab, the minority, the taxpayer.

"Politics begin where the masses are, not where there are thousands, but where there are millions, that is where serious politics begin." - Vladimir Lenin

Barack Obama is not president of the United States. He is to America, what Hugo Chavez is to Venezuela. He was elected as Chavez was elected, by a hungry proletariat class seeking free unfettered access to other people's assets. He was elected by "mob rule," and he is governing by "mob rule," just as Thomas Jefferson had warned against.

Elected by College Kids...

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." - "Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever." - Vladimir Lenin

Yesterday's draft dodger, eco-nut, domestic terrorist, you get the picture, is now your son or daughters college professor in almost 100% of the college lecture halls. K thru 12 education is controlled by the teachers union and the ACLU, both of which are progressive operations within the Democratic Socialist movement.

Every national policy under the sun is controlled by CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations, with focus upon how US policies affect the balance of the world, instead of on how best to protect and preserve a constitutional representative republic.

The kids are no longer insulted by terms like "socialist" or "communist." They know nothing negative about these terms. They have been taught that only capitalism is evil, based upon greed.

As a result, they see people in search of other people's assets as "charitable" and those who only desire a right to what they earn, as "greedy." Their minds have been twisted inside out. They were so focused on "change" that they never stopped to ask what kinds of "change." They were so excited to elect the first "black" president that they never stopped to find a "black" candidate.

Barack Hussein Obama is half white and 7/16 Arab, being only 1/16 African. They knew he had ties to domestic terrorists like William Ayers. They knew he had spent twenty years as a member of the most racist church in America. They knew that despite his somewhat moderate sounding campaign rhetoric, his voting record was that of the most far left extreme member of the US Senate. They didn't care about any of it....

The Point of No Return

From a trillion in debt to $4 trillion in debt in a matter of six weeks in power.

From keeping international terrorists on the run to welcoming them to US streets and criminal courts; From recognizing the world's most dangerous regimes to begging for friendship with the world's most dangerous regimes; From ACORN voter and election fraud to ACORN partnership with the White House in an effort to manipulate the census and forever change national elections by way of redistricting.

From public outrage over blatant illegal immigration to full amnesty and voting rights for illegal invaders, who will then be signed to labor unions and DNC voter rolls by the millions, making certain that only Democrats can win national elections for the balance of this century, or until such time that the people revolt.

The election of Barack Obama marks the passing of the point of no return. There is no peaceful means of reversing the current daily assault on all things American. People who thought they could let the country fall into enemy hands only to regain control in 2010 or 2012, were complete fools.

They don't need you and they don't want you. They want you to shut up and take it in the shorts and learn to like it. They want you to go away. It's only your assets, they want.


"Democracy is indispensable to socialism." - Vladimir Lenin

The people have spoken and they have democratically chosen global secular socialism. In the "messiah" they believe. In government power they now trust.

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism." - Vladimir Lenin

Capitalism, aka economic freedom, is something to be despised and destroyed. The individual is nothing. The greater communal good trumps every individual liberty. Freedom from religious expression trumps freedom of religious expression. The people's right to your stuff trumps your right to your own stuff.

The people now have "change." Whether or not it is the change they desired, or thought they were voting for, it is here now and there is no turning back.

Democratic Socialists don't need a single Republican vote in the House and they can buy the few they need in the Senate. Republicans are powerless to stop any of it. They are far too divided to work as a unit anyway.

The coming Revolt!

The people will one day revolt against these anti-American leaders. How soon? How violently? These are the only remaining questions...

How much must the people lose before they refuse to lose any more? How much can the left take away from the right before the right refuses to let them take any more? How much must they destroy before Americans gain the courage to take a united stand against them? How long will the people fund evil before they refuse to fund it any longer?

Nobody knows the answers to these questions. Only time will provide the answers.

But one thing is certain; although bullets are not yet flying, America is at war within. The full frontal assault on all things American is quickening. The left is in a rush to dismantle America before the people can wake up and react. Freedom, Liberty, speech, religion, guns, sovereignty and security are all under daily attack.

Freedom will one day reign again in America, but how soon and at what expense?

Karl Marx said "Democracy is the road to socialism." He was right. Now the people will have to learn what's wrong with socialism, the hard way.

If you can watch these two videos and still not be in the mood to take your nation back, you won't ever be in the mood to take your nation back! (Source) - Emphasis added

Video #1 - Glenn Beck deconstructs AIG scandal





Video #2 - We The People Stimulus Package


This could get ugly. What's unfortunate is that these are valid concerns but Obama acolytes will charge that voicing these concerns as fear-mongering and/racist rather than considering how this will effect a this country that they and their children call home. It's sad because the decisions that are being made for us today in the house and senate will have long-term ramifications that will negatively affect our children and grandchildren.

191 comments:

DJ Black Adam said...

...and i guess you all are wiating for the "Black Helicopters" from the "UN" as they "UN"do America!

Bwahahahahaha!!!

You folks are a riot!

RightKlik said...

This nation was supposed to be a Democratic Republic, not a democracy. With the 17th Amendment we took a turn in the wrong direction, one important step closer to mob rule.

With the election of Obama, we proved we were capable of electing the likes of Chavez.

DJ Black Adam said...

From the President's radio address today here is what he is outlining as priorities:

"Those are plans to boost investments in clean energy technologies, including wind and solar power; increased funding for childhood education programs, affordable college costs and higher standards for schools; health care reform that will lower costs, including Medicare and Medicaid; and a scrutiny on domestic spending that will lead to cuts in the deficit."

So the Right needs to catch a clue, you have had since Regan to stick it to workers and consumers and play the "whose going to pay for it" game when it came to increasing the PUBLIC / COMMON welfare of the American citizen, the party is over, and you all crashed it with your unregulated greed running amok in the financial services industry while you Jedi Mind tricked or otherwise distracted "Joe Six Pack" to be concerned about who got 3 dollars extra a month of food stamps.

Call it socialism if you will, I call it SOCIAL Justice and COMMON Sense...Jus saying...

brotherkomrade said...

RightKliKK bleats...

"This nation was supposed to be a Democratic Republic, not a democracy. With the 17th Amendment we took a turn in the wrong direction, one important step closer to mob rule.

With the election of Obama, we proved we were capable of electing the likes of Chavez."

Brotherkomrade says...

I wish. But if it were true, I say:


Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[rubbing hands]

Conservative Black Woman said...

DJBA~Did you read this article at all or have you just rejected out of the gate considering that I a rightie posted it? Just asking? Because JB Williams makes a strong argument. Your reaction surprises me because I have found you to be reasonably objective in general.

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Devon said...

That is very interesting...I always thought it was Churchill that originated that famous line about 'Democracy leading to Socialism' but it was that bastard Marx...well, he sadly was right!

I think it was Churchill or JFK that said Democracy was a horrible form of govt...and they were right...BUT as they pointed out, it was better then all the other alternatives...I guess they were right about that but man oh man, things are getting ugly and dangerous...

Democracy cannot handle demagouges like Obama...the man is dangerous and we shouldn't be surprised...we knew what he stood for when he was running....

One really wonders if not only America but the Western world is heading to major wars in her streets..in Europe, the muslims are getting more aggressive and the people there are starting to awaken to that danger..

And we come back to obama...

He is going to make Carter look brilliant....

One thing about you Americans, you are not passive...we Canadians are horribly and dangerously passive...but not so for you my American Cousins...

Just hang in there till the mid term elections and take away obama's advantage there...and then knock him out in 4 years...

That is if the world makes it that far...ha ha ....

Take care

Boxie said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"DJBA~Did you read this article at all or have you just rejected out of the gate considering that I a rightie posted it? Just asking? Because JB Williams makes a strong argument. Your reaction surprises me because I have found you to be reasonably objective in general."

Oh, I do try to be "objective" but when I read stuff like this:

"Barack Hussein Obama is half white and 7/16 Arab, being only 1/16 African."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Seriously, I have some friends down in Mississippi who are Conservatives, Members of the Southern Baptist Church who always bring this up, so why don't you explain to me what they are REALLY trying to say? Because honestly, I shut people out when they go there...

Conservative Black Woman said...

DJBA~I understand that as you see that sentence was not highlighted. I have just learned to eat the fish and spit out the bones.

I thought the article for the most part was compelling and accurate.

Devon said...

I wonder where people get the idea that obama has any Arab blood in him??

That is clearly wrong...he is African and European descent...and I have to agree for once with DJ, what is there point in saying obama is arabic anyways??

Also, that Pastor Manning from Harlem always makes a big deal out of Obama's ancestry...I don't know why...who cares...

The only thing that scares me about Obama is his radical left wing agenda...it doesn't matter a wit what is ethnic make up is...

I'm afriad conspiracy theorists are all over the political map...left and right and in the center...people love conspiracies....

Go figure.

Dev in Canada

JMK said...

"I wonder where people get the idea that obama has any Arab blood in him??

"That is clearly wrong...he is African and European descent...and I have to agree for once with DJ, what is there point in saying obama is arabic anyways??" (Devon)
<
<
It doesn't make any sense.

I've heard he challenges from both sides, initially that he wasn't "black enough" and didn't have the "traditional black American experience/upbringing" from the Left and the Arab/Muslim smear from the Right.

BOTH are baseless.

Baraack Obma doesn't have to explain or apologize for his lineage to anyone. He is what he is and his ethnicity is NOT what defines him.

Ethnicity doesn't define ANYONE.

The idea of "racial/ethnic pride" is a foolish notion. You can only rightfully have "pride" in your accomplishments.

Ethnicity and gender are "accidents of birth," and nothing we have any control over nor are they "accomplishments", in any way.

JudyBright said...

I don't know what basis it has, but I think the point that the author was making was that the people who voted for him were so ignorant that they thought he was black even though he's a small percentage African. It was a dig on how little people actually knew about him.

I think it was a stupid and unnecessary point; the article is strong enough without it. I don't think the point was to say (President)Obama is less worthy or qualified to be president because of his heritage. From the author's perspective, it was like people voting for a well tanned Italian and thinking they elected the first black president.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Judy:

"I don't know what basis it has, but I think the point that the author was making was that the people who voted for him were so ignorant that they thought he was black even though he's a small percentage African."

Maybe if people like you knew that being "Black (the sociological group) in the West " does not mean one is "100% African" you might understand.

We range from Vin Disel to Wesley Snipes, not hard to follow. If Barack had mugged some old white lady or was selling crack, all you all would be quick to call him black then, so don't change up just because the brother is president....

JudyBright said...

DJBA,

Calm down. I was attempting to explain what the author was trying to convey, not indicating my agreement.

I even said it was a stupid point.

I have never personally questioned Barack Obama's "blackness."

I'd be interested to know who "people like me" are since you seem to know so much about me.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"We range from Vin Disel to Wesley Snipes, not hard to follow. If Barack had mugged some old white lady or was selling crack, all you all would be quick to call him black then, so don't change up just because the brother is president...."

Huh? Way off point! I'm speechless for now.

Blair said...

On the topic of democratic socialism:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb." -- Ben Franklin

Devon said...

Yeah you got a point there DJ...I have heard both Blacks and Whites complain about Obama's ancestry...sad really....

What stinks for me, all my life I have been wanting to see a Black Man become President...but I always thought it would be a conservative...someone I could really embrace...

I just can't get excited about someone that is so far left...

Mayby Obama will surprise me and move more to the center at least....

Such interesting times in which we live...

DJ Black Adam said...

@Judy:

"People like YOU" are people who would even try to justify that cow dung that writer was saying about Barack's "race".

Honestly, for ONCE I have to COMPLETELY AGREE with JMK. His one clear and direct statement about that author’s race line made it VERY clear to me that he isn't a racist or a self hater and has about as much patience for them as I do.

I find it reprehensible that you would even attempt to justify those comments. That’s why Black conservatives have little if any credibility with me, they allow for that type of language, close their eyes to it or cosign on it.

Now pardon me if I read you wrong, but that's what you gave me to work with since we don't know each other personally.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

I wrote: “"We range from Vin Disel to Wesley Snipes, not hard to follow. If Barack had mugged some old white lady or was selling crack, all you all would be quick to call him black then, so don't change up just because the brother is president...."

You replied “Huh? Way off point! I'm speechless for now”

Let me break down what exactly prompted me to go there. First, the article was quoted at saying: “Barack Hussein Obama is half white and 7/16 Arab, being only 1/16 African.”

To which some folks commented about Barack’ race being an issue to some whites and blacks.

Further, one of your commenter’s went as far to try to lend credence and equivocate for the author of the article by insinuating there was a valid point in pointing out that Barack’s non Bantu or Khosain as a means of saying “Black folks are stupid for thinking that they have the first Black president” or “voting for Barack because he is Black because he really isn’t” etc. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with JMK, his being Black should not have been a reason to vote FOR or AGAINST him, however, I take exception to the FICTION that the man isn’t a Black man.

Being a “Black” person in the west doesn’t mean and never has meant that one is 100% Bantu or Khosian or whatever other Black racial groups of Africa.

I have as much disdain for Blacks who say Barack isn’t “Black Enough” (as these same idiots like Andre Young claimed Bill Clinton was) as I do for Whites who say Barack isn’t Black because of his mixed ancestry (Because these same Whites would defiantly call him Black if he was committing a crime).

I hope that clears up my position to you.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"I have as much disdain for Blacks who say Barack isn’t “Black Enough” (as these same idiots like Andre Young claimed Bill Clinton was) as I do for Whites who say Barack isn’t Black because of his mixed ancestry (Because these same Whites would defiantly call him Black if he was committing a crime).

I hope that clears up my position to you."

It does. Thank you and I completely agree with you. I am just sorry that this particular thread went "racial" because the issue for me at least is the changes that are taking place in this country and whether or not it's a change we are going to be grateful for in 8 years and whether or not we will be able to recover if we arent' happy.

uptownsteve said...

"I have as much disdain for Blacks who say Barack isn’t “Black Enough”"

Name one.

The only people I've heard claiming Obama wasn't "really" black were rightwingers who were trying to rationalize how this guy came out nowhere and captured the highest office in the land.

"He can't possibly be a ni**er?!!?, can he?"

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown;

""I have as much disdain for Blacks who say Barack isn’t “Black Enough”"

Let's start with Andrew Young, who further stated that Bill Clinton WAS Black Enough because he slept with more Black Women than Barack.

There is so much wrong with Andy Young's statements I won't even start...

JudyBright said...

DJBA,

I wasn't trying to "justify" or agree with anything, just explain where I thought the guy was coming from.

I disagree with Williams' perspective on race, but that does not mean that he is trying to be malicious with his point of view.

I also agree that he could use an education on what it means sociologically to be black in the West, and it's certainly not solely based on the amount of black African blood running through your veins.

DJ Black Adam said...

Judy:

"I disagree with Williams' perspective on race, but that does not mean that he is trying to be malicious with his point of view."

If you wish to believe he isn't, that is your choice. Personally, I have to reject he man completely because that point about race ads nothing of value to his overall argument and compltely undermines it to me.

Dude has zero credibility as far as I am concerned.

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

This is what Young said:

Former Atlanta Mayor and Ambassador Andrew Young explained why he does not support Sen. Barack Obama to win the Democratic nomination for president - until "2016."

"It is not a matter of being inexperienced," Young told an Atlanta crowd this fall. "It is a matter of being young. There is a certain matter of maturity ... You have to have a protective network around you... Leadership requires suffering. And I would like to see Barack's children get a little older, see, because they're going to pick on them."

"I want Barack to be president," he responded with a long pause, "....in 2016."

He also said that while Obama's rival Sen. Hillary Clinton is surrounded by quite a few black advisors Obama has very few.

He also joked that author Toni Morrison may have been on to something when she referred to former President Bill Clinton as the "first black president."

"Bill is every bit as black as Barack," he said. "He has probably gone out with more black women than Barack.""

Flippant? Yes. Silly? Yeah.

But he didn't diminish Obama's blackness but tried to bolster Clinton's.

And so what?

Who listens to Andrew Young?

He was a hasbeen trying to make one last stab at glory by trying to latch on to Hillary Clinton's campaign.

Who said Obama "wasn't black enough"?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

It's not about who "cares" I heard enough Black people echo those thoughts, and if you don't think my mutual implication Young was infering that Barack "wasn't" Black enough, then I guess we just see this subject very differently.

There are and weere many Black folks here in Chicago who actually articulated that Barack wasn't "Blak" enough, maybe you don't have that problem where you are at.

In any case, Young's language was UNACCEPTABLE, he at that point was no better than Hannity or Limbaugh in my opinion.

uptownsteve said...

DJBA,

Youngs remarks were reprehensible for sure.

Maybe there were questions about Obama's "blackness" in Chicago.

But I never heard it on the east coast from any blacks.

The fact is that many "black people" in America have mixed raced backrounds (like myself) but because of this countries social constructs have always identified themselves as black people.

DJ Black Adam said...

BTW Uptown:

Just to make sure we Blacks in Chicago aren’t so different from the ones on the East Coast, I thought I do a quick Google search of Blacks who don’t think (or didn’t think) President Obama was Black enough if Black at all.

Debra Dickerson from here: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/01/22/obama/

“Since he [Barack Obama] had no part in our racial history, he is free of it. And once he's opened the door to even an awkward embrace of candidates of color for the highest offices, the door will stay open. A side door, but an open door. Yet until Obama survives the scourging he's about to receive from Hillary Clinton (God help him if he really did lie about his Muslim background) and the electoral process, no candidate of color will ever be taken seriously. Clinton isn't about to leave the stage in the name of racial progress, and the pundit class has only just begun to take apart the senator's record, associates and bank accounts. Still, this is progress. A non-black on the down low about his non-blackness is about to get what blacks have always asked for: to be judged on his merits. So let's all just pretend that we've really overcome."

Stanley Crouch from here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1730861/posts

“So when black Americans refer to Obama as "one of us," I do not know what they are talking about. In his new book, "The Audacity of Hope," Obama makes it clear that, while he has experienced some light versions of typical racial stereotypes, he cannot claim those problems as his own - nor has he lived the life of a black American.”

Now this is the type of crap I heard from many people (many, not most), and you’re telling me no one out east ever expressed these thought? Looking at the problems African Americans have with recent Ethiopian immigrants in the DC area alone, I’d like to know how you figure?

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

Debra Dickerson (herself married to a white man and considers her child non-black) and Stanley Crouch are two examples of the rightwingers questioning Obama's blackness.

They don't represent the views of most black folks.

Not even close.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

Debra is a Liberal, she has worked for Bill Clinton, so it appears that this type of attitude can come from the left or right.

You wrote: "They don't represent the views of most black folks."

I never said "most" blacks feel that way, SOME do, is all I'm saying, and some of that some are lefties.

I have caught it myself before from some "blacks" when they find out I have some direct ancestry from Beta Israel, all I'm saying is that some folks have that particular view that Dickersen on the left and Crouch on the right expressed, and it's not limited to Chicago.

uptownsteve said...

Debra is a "liberal" like Juan Williams is a "liberal".

On race issues they both peddle the same negrophobia that rightwingers do.

I'm telling you straightup that you will not find any black progressives whether in the media or elective office saying Obama isn't "black enough" or "isn't really black".

That is totally the realm of righties.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"I'm telling you straightup that you will not find any black progressives whether in the media or elective office saying Obama isn't "black enough" or "isn't really black".

That is totally the realm of righties."

It's not even logical that a "rightie" would question whether or not PSBO is black enough.... I thought according to you UTS we righties despise our blackness so since we also despise Obama why would we give him credit for being "less black". I'm just saying here that following the logical conclusion of your indictments of "righties" would not lead to a "rightie" holding blackness in high esteem now would it? I am in no way saying this is true. However if what you say about "rightie" were true then saying he is not black enough is illogical.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Furthermore UTS David Ehrenstien is the black liberal who wrote the "Barack the magic negro" article in the LA Times and whose premise is that according to Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton -- Liberal Leftist that Barack Obama isn't black enough.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,5335087.story?coll=la-opinion-center

uptownsteve said...

"I thought according to you UTS we righties despise our blackness so since we also despise Obama why would we give him credit for being "less black."

Because of his obvious talent, intelligence and charisma.

Plus, I kept hearing righties claiming that Obama was the first black politician who didn't practice the politics of "victimology" or "grievances".

I'm still waiting for one these morons to detail how Doug Wilder, Harold Washington, Ron Kirk, Tony Williams, Shirley Jackson and scores of other black elected officials who represented diverse areas practiced the politics of "grievances" but that's another story.

Obama tremendous success and his appeal across racial lines makes conservatives posit that he can't really be "black" or "traditionally black".

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Obama tremendous success and his appeal across racial lines makes conservatives posit that he can't really be "black" or "traditionally black"."

Well any conservative black or otherwise who subscibes to this is a complete moron.

uptownsteve said...

Sigh.

Ehrenstein's premise (he didn't even mention Jesse Jackson) was that Obama had to walk a tightrope in order to make himself appealling to whites.

He couldn't appear angry or aggresive.

His tone always had to be soothing and genial.

He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race.

He was the political equivalent of Sidney Poitier in Hollywood during the 60s.

Do you kow that the scene in the "Heat of the Night" where Poitier returns the face slap of a white racist was edited out of many showings mainly in the South but not necessarily limited to the South during the initial showings.

THAT's what Ehrenstein was referring to.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

"He couldn't appear angry or aggresive.

His tone always had to be soothing and genial. He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race. He was the political equivalent of Sidney Poitier in Hollywood during the 60s."

And this is true, any Black man that has worked in corporate America knows these rules...

JMK said...

"He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race." (UTS)
<
<
After 40 years of race-based preferences and set-asides for blacks, there's absolutely no reason for ANYone on either side to be "accusatory or demanding regarding race."

A typically dumb premise.

JMK said...

"His tone always had to be soothing and genial. He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race...And this is true, any Black man that has worked in corporate America knows these rules..." (DJBA)
<
<
Hey!

Those are the very SAME rules I live by with both blacks and whites....they call it "playing well with others."

Yeah, being a jackass in polite company is generally frowned upon...by everyone.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Those are the very SAME rules I live by with both blacks and whites....they call it "playing well with others."

Yeah, being a jackass in polite company is generally frowned upon...by everyone."

Bwahahahahaha!!! ABSO-FREAKIN-LOOTLY! Thank you JMK!!!!

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Those are the very SAME rules I live by with both blacks and whites....they call it "playing well with others. Yeah, being a jackass in polite company is generally frowned upon...by everyone."

JMK, YOU I can excuse for your complete supreme ignorance on this issue. It's not about being a "jackass", hell if I have to much brother bass in my voice when I say "good morning" White folk get nervous, so in this case, you need to shut up because you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

@CBW:

I will assume you have no experience with what I am saying, I think you might want to ask at least 10 Black men that work in corporate America either downtown Chicago, Manhatten, DC, Dallas or Philly and let me know what you find out.

uptownsteve said...

CBW,

"Bwahahahahaha!!! ABSO-FREAKIN-LOOTLY! Thank you JMK!!!!"

Really my sista, the way you indulge this racist is very off-putting.

JMK is a breathing example of the racial double standard I'm talking about.

He comes on this board spewing garbage about blacks being more racist than whites, blacks resenting success, blacks hating people lighter than them, blacks wanting something for nothing and the POS thinks he's just telling the truth.

Then because I have the temerity to stand up to him, he calls ME a racist.

It defies belief.

Dick Cheney tells a prominent Democrat to go fuck himself on the floor of the Senate.

John McCain routinely cursed and threatened his Senate colleagues.

If Obama or any black politician had acted similarly thier careers would have been over.

Wake the hell up.

uptownsteve said...

JMK

"After 40 years of race-based preferences and set-asides for blacks, there's absolutely no reason for ANYone on either side to be "accusatory or demanding regarding race."

AA never affected more than 10% of the black workforce and discrimination against blacks in the workforce never went anywhere but covert.

You're in la-la land racist.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEc-nFULY8

CBW...didn't know where to show you this....we were jumpin' pews and shoutin' hallelujah.

Thanks for all you do. You are in my prayers. Mini Me too....

Conservative Black Woman said...

"@CBW:

I will assume you have no experience with what I am saying, I think you might want to ask at least 10 Black men that work in corporate America either downtown Chicago, Manhatten, DC, Dallas or Philly and let me know what you find out" (DJBA)

"Wake the hell up."(UTS)

DJBA~ I am not marginalizing your experience in the corporate world. So I apologize if it seems so. UTS, I am awake. I just know too many confident and capable black men my husband being one of them who do not feel the compulsion to "be a good little negro" in mixed company. He speaks his mind always and he is courteous but direct. He has been called an arrogant azz-hole because his self-assurance. He has made the comment that the he is considered an A-hole for his behavior but it's ok for white guys to have that sort of confidence-- but that isn't his problem. He doesn't change his behavior because of someone else's ignorance. If he is pissed-off he is doesn't fly off the handle because it's unproductive but he isn't "controling" himself because he is a black man he is controling himself because he is a responsible citizen. I suspect that the same is true for the two of you so I just find it curious that you feel that you can't have too much bass in your voice. If someone feels "threaten" by your manhood then isn't it their problem and not yours?

uptownsteve said...

"He has made the comment that the he is considered an A-hole for his behavior but it's ok for white guys to have that sort of confidence--"

That's the whole point.

Double standard.

I see it every day.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"If someone feels "threaten" by your manhood then isn't it their problem and not yours?"

Sure is there problem, however when that person is an Executive Vice president or CFO their problems can easily become "my" problem.

So, I sure do still speak my mind, but I have to be very mindfull of my tone, whereas my white male collegues don't have to be. Bottom line, there are a whole lot of White folks that are scared of Black Men, I don't care if our pants are saggin or we are in an Armani suit, and the darker the brother the more scared they are.

If Barack looked or sounded like Wesley Snipes, no way he would have gotten elected, sorry, its the American way, at least for now...

uptownsteve said...

DJBA,

ON POINT.

JMK said...

"His tone always had to be soothing and genial. He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race...And this is true, any Black man that has worked in corporate America knows these rules..." (DJBA)
<
<
Hey!

Those are the very SAME rules I live by with both blacks and whites....they call it "playing well with others." (JMK)
<
<
That's a FACT.

I don't approcah people in "an accusatory and deamnding manner" and I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone.

For instance, neither you nor UTS have the moral standing to approach ME in "an accusatoryor demanding manner," hell, UTS can't even defend race-based preferences, though that says a lot more about his verbal limitations than his attitude.

As I noted elsewhere, I don't owe ANYONE else anything....hell, I don't even owe people like UTS basic respect, because his toxic combination of ignorance coupled with a vile attitude don't warrant any respect.

Every place I've worked, I've worked with black co-workers, like each and every ethnic group, some of the best and some of the worst people come from that group.

I've never had anyone approcah me in "an accusatory or demanding way." Most people (the vast and overwhelming majority) are just that nice and those who aren't tend not to jump ugly on people like me - my nickname around the firehouse, when I started working in the South Bronx was "crazy eyes."

I didn't like that, but I guess it fit, because nitwits, no matter how unhinged never came off stupid to me.

I don't have any reason to come off "accusatory and demanding" toward others and I don't accept anyone else's claim to the right to do that with me.

JMK said...

"He comes on this board spewing garbage about blacks being more racist than whites, blacks resenting success, blacks hating people lighter than them, blacks wanting something for nothing and the POS thinks he's just telling the truth.

"Then because I have the temerity to stand up to him, he calls ME a racist." (UTS)
<
<
I call you a racial bigot because you are one. You're a coward too.

Don't diminish yourself even further by lying.

My initial posts on this board recently (I believe I've posted here in the past on occasion) were about economics.

I apparently embarassed YOU by explaining in detail why you were WRONG in using DEBT and DEFICT as synonyms, when they are very clearly not.

I pounded YOU because you wrongfully and mean-spiritedly pounded CF and Tyrone (Conservative Brother)...your every response to them has been vile and your charge that "Conservatism is white supremacy", is not only moronically, mouth-breathingly ignorant, it is rooted in a profound racial bigotry.

You can hate all you want, but please don't diminish yourself further by lying, because that makes you look even worse.

uptownsteve said...

"UTS can't even defend race-based preferences, though that says a lot more about his verbal limitations than his attitude."

This is constant theme with you.

The only race-based preferences or the only people I've seen benefiting from them have been white males.

I've seen white guys hired because the were in the same frat as a director.

I've seen white guys hired and promoted because they were of the same ethnicity as a manager or director.

I've seen white people totally incapable of making their monthly goals who were merely reassigned to administrative positions whereas a black would have been canned.

I've seen management positions which many experienced blacks would have totally qualified for not even advertised internally.

Yet one day you walk into the office and some Opie Taylor clone is sitting there with a higher salary than you and a title you never heard before.

That's how corporate America works.

Despite your fanatasies of favoritism toward blacks.

THEMS THE FACTS.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

Again, no one is saying ANYONE should use an "acussatory" tone, what I am saying is what I said to CBW, which was:

"So, I sure do still speak my mind, but I have to be very mindfull of my tone, whereas my white male collegues don't have to be. Bottom line, there are a whole lot of White folks that are scared of Black Men, I don't care if our pants are saggin or we are in an Armani suit, and the darker the brother the more scared they are.

If Barack looked or sounded like Wesley Snipes, no way he would have gotten elected, sorry, its the American way, at least for now..."

Understand?

uptownsteve said...

"Don't diminish yourself even further by lying."

This is where you get smacked to the wall like the insect that you are.

"I call you a racial bigot because you are one."

Produce a racist statement from me on this board.

Anything resembling the filth you've spewed.

On the other thread I already exposed your defense of white supremacist Jared Taylor.
I'll wait patiently.

uptownsteve said...

"Conservatism is white supremacy"

While your at it, you can produce this so-called "quote" from me as well.

You make this too easy racist.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

For the record, in my opinion, there is no way Uptown is a racist, I don't believe he has any ill intent to anyone of any race.

Jus saying...

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

JMK can't stand black people yelling back at him.

It's a classic characteristic of the racist.

I have white people in my family.

I don't like bigots and phonies.

JMK said...

"He [CBW's husband] speaks his mind always and he is courteous but direct. He has been called an arrogant azz-hole because his self-assurance." (CBW)
<
<
Nearly every guy I've ever worked with (with very few exceptions, and from EVERY background) has done exactly that and, "speaking one's mind, but always courteously and directly" is NOT at all the same as approaching others in "an accusatory and demanding manner."

Apparently both UTS (as I'd expect) AND DJBA (whom I wouldn't expect that from) confuse the former with the latter.

Many of the black guys I've worked with have been former Military and they run the gammut from somewhat Left-of-center to very Conservative, some even more Conservative than myself.

Dialogue is based on people "speaking one's mind, but ALWAYS courteously and directly", while "approcahing someone in an accusatory and demanding manner" is grounds for the nitwit coming off wrong to get lumped up.

BIG difference.

Personally, I follow a very simple rule, I try never to approach a person in a way I wouldn't like to be approached myself, though I DO "respond in kind" (like when I see a dufus like UTS trying to bully up on really decent guys like CF and CB), I treat them as they deserve to be treated....like crap.

But just as I try never to approcah a person in a way I wouldn't want to be approached, I wouldn't tolerate someone coming off to me in a way I wouldn't come off to others.

Apparently UTS and DJBA both believe in the view that "blacks have legitimate grievances and its incumbent on whites to just listen up."

I ain't that kinda white.

While I can disagree respectfully with anyone, I wouldn't tolerate someone coming across "accusatory and demanding" with me.

A DIALOGUE is a MUTUAL EXCHANGE of views.

I'm always open to that.

I'm NEVER open to being lectured, especially by folks who've enjoyed preferential treatment based on race for the past four frigging DECADES!

Fact is, other people don't HAVE to like us.

Maybe that's one of the things that I have that works in my favor. When someone has a personality problem with me or doesn't like me right from the start, I presume it's just one of those "oil and water" kind of things. I DON'T presume its based on race, no matter what race that other person is.

Folks like UTS and I gather DJBA, consider the racial component first and foremost in such instances....that kind of attitude ultimately handicaps YOURSELF.

JudyBright said...

CBW,

I think you're right. All your post comments end the same way.

JMK vs UTS. Insult death cage match. Internet style. Grrrrrrr.

JMK said...

""He has made the comment that the he is considered an A-hole for his behavior but it's ok for white guys to have that sort of confidence--"

"That's the whole point.

"Double standard." (UTS)


NONSENSE UTS!

Arrogant, straight-up white guys are also conisdered A-holes by others.

There's no "double standard" at least not in THAT regard.

uptownsteve said...

"I'm NEVER open to being lectured"

But you don't mind lecturing us black folks, do you?

"especially by folks who've enjoyed preferential treatment based on race for the past four frigging DECADES!"

Absolute friggin nonsense.

uptownsteve said...

"Arrogant, straight-up white guys are also conisdered A-holes by others."

Doesn't stop them from advancing.

For black men, it's a death sentence.

uptownsteve said...

This moron goes on and on about "preferential treatment" when the EEOC under Clinton and the Fair Employment Council have conducted studies for the past 20 years that proved when equally qualified blacks and whites apply for the same position the white is hired almost 80% of the time.

30% of the time the black is told the position was filled only for the white to be subsequently interviewed.

http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/testers.html

Resumes with black sounding names are routinely trashed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml

Preferential treatment my a$$.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

Reading is fundemental tovarisch.

You wrote: " NOT at all the same as approaching others in "an accusatory and demanding manner."

JMK, I am a Marine, I have had subordinates and have been an NCO, I have had to tell Majors and Colnels off very carefully.

So please, get off it, I am not saying that anyone needs to approach anyone in "an accusatory and demanding manner".

What I am saying is that White corporate execs are easily unerved by Black Men, like I said, I can say "Good Morning" and white folks get scared, because they already ARE.

Which was my point...

JMK said...

“Again, no one is saying ANYONE should use an "accusatory" tone...” (DJBA)
<
<
REALLY?!

Think again, because YOU DID!

Here’s the exchange; “His tone always had to be soothing and genial.

”He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race.” (UTS)
<
<
“And this is true, any Black man that has worked in corporate America knows these rules...” (DJBA)

Your response was an amplification and a affirmative agreement with the above statement, which implies that blacks SHOULD be “accusatory and demanding regarding race” with others.

So, there’s THAT.

Perhaps, in that light, you’d want to take another look at your statement that “For the record, in my opinion, there is no way Uptown is a racist, I don't believe he has any ill intent to anyone of any race.”


His responses to the likes of CF and CB, coupled with his claim that Conservatism is rooted in anti-black bigotry kind of make clear WHO and what kind of person UTS is.

I don't throw the term "racial bigot" (I don't ever use the ill-defined term "racist") around very freely at all, but UTS is a typical racial bigot. He come off six shades of f*cked up to the likes of CF and CB, then sulks when he gets pounded with the facts that expose his ignorance (from debts and deficits to preferences).

He come soff anonymously like a hardcase and a softy in person.

That's ALWAYS their way.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Apparently UTS and DJBA both believe in the view that "blacks have legitimate grievances and its incumbent on whites to just listen up."

I think that White folks need to catch a clue, many people of many groups have legitimate grievences, people just need to LISTEN TO EACH OTHER so we can work past those things, race isn't the issue tovarsich...

JMK said...

"But you don't mind lecturing us black folks, do you?" (UTS)
<
<
Actually, I've never lectured anyone around here.

I pounded you on some gross ignorance on your part, but only AFTER YOU came off like an A-hole with CF and CB....I figured it was the very least I could do.

You could end your humiliation ANY time. Just stop coming off like a jackass and I wouldn't have any problem with you.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

Well, I guess you need a bit of calrification, yet again, I don't think anyone should be "accusatory or demanding" in business or social interactions unless its a fight, whereas I DO think that Wite People act like blacks are being: ""accusatory or demanding" whenever a Black person disagrees with their views.
Jus saying...

uptownsteve said...

JMK

We already know that I'm the type of negro that pisses you off but you still haven't produced a racist quote from and I'm sure you won't.

You seem to be really offended at how I treat your black conservative pets CF and Tyrone but you'll have to get over it.

I will continue to pound those two fools as long as they slander and vilify their own people and make excuses for racists like you.

As far as conservatism being rooted in anti-black bigotry I needn't go any farther than saying that every one of the fathers of Modern Conservatism...ie William Buckley, Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater were vehemently opposed to the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Them's the facts.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

CBW and CF Know what they set themselves up for by throing in their hat with the Strom Thurmand / Jesse Helms followers, par for the course...might I suggest you explain that whol Jared Taylor thing you got going on, THAT MAN IS a RACIST, pure and simple, so what's up with your admitted reverence for that clown?

JMK said...

"So please, get off it, I am not saying that anyone needs to approach anyone in "an accusatory and demanding manner"." (DJBA)
<
<
No, your own words damn you in that regard.

Again the exchange was; “His tone always had to be soothing and genial.

"He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race.” (UTS)
<
<
“And this is true, any Black man that has worked in corporate America knows these rules...” (DJBA)

Your response was an amplification and a affirmative agreement with the above statement, which implies that blacks SHOULD be “accusatory and demanding regarding race” with others.

Before we can move forward, we have to take responsibility for what we said.

I'll defend anything I said, and if someone misinterprets or I poorly worded something, I'll either re-interpret that for them or re-word the comment altogether, BUT in your case, your AGREEMENT with UTS, though probably done in haste clearly sided with a statement that very clearly implied that blacks SHOULD accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race.

You can re-interpret that or better still, re-word that, BUT you can't deny what you clearly said.

JMK said...

"JMK can't stand black people yelling back at him." (UTS)
<
<
People don't "yell" at me period.

As I said earlier YOU wouldn't either in person...and you can't "yell" in a mere verbal post.

YOU have absolutely no moral standing on which to come off accusatory or demanding with me and I assure you, you wouldn't do that.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

I don't think UTS was saying that blacks should be accusatory or demanding in day to day interactions social or business, if that is what you think "I" am saying, for clarifications sake I am saying I DON'T.

I BACK UP and stand by anything I say, I have no qualms about that, I also have no qualms in saying that if anyone THOUGHT i meant one thing, I am clear to admit that I wrong in my comminucation and CLARIFY. Its a Blog man, people are typing from work for the most part, mistakes happen, shesh...

JMK said...

"CBW and CF Know what they set themselves up for by throing in their hat with the Strom Thurmand / Jesse Helms followers, par for the course..." (DJBA)
<
<
Another statement dripping with bigotry.

While Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms have every right to their views, just as surely as did other controversial figures (ie. Jesse Jackson, Malcolm-X), they are not the roots of Conservatism.

A more open/free market, less government intervention and control and lower tax RATES for everyone are the heart of Conservative principles.

People who confuse or condemn Conservatism as "rooted in racial bigotry" are almost ALWAYS out-and-out racial bigots themselves.

uptownsteve said...

"CBW and CF Know what they set themselves up for by throing in their hat with the Strom Thurmand / Jesse Helms followers, par for the course"

On the BR board CF went so far as to say that Heritage Foundation did more for blacks than the NAACP.

"...might I suggest you explain that whol Jared Taylor thing you got going on, THAT MAN IS a RACIST, pure and simple, so what's up with your admitted reverence for that clown?"

I'm waiting for him to expound on that as well.

Conservative Black Woman said...

JudyBright~This is pretty amazing. I almost deleted that one line about PSBO's racial composition from the article but I wanted to remain true to the author.

I am grateful to everyone on this forum for their input but I'm sort of "raced" out. I wonder what it is that we could all talk about where race wouldn't come up?

I fear their is nothing because we are in a fallen world and race is an issue. How utterly sad.

Where are my "rose-colored" glasses? lol....all this "reality" is making me crazy.

uptownsteve said...

"Another statement dripping with bigotry.

While Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms have every right to their views,"

But the point is why would any black person align themselves with these sorts?

I think you better take a rest JMK.

You're starting to look like Denzel Washington in the closing scene from "Training Day".

uptownsteve said...

"I am grateful to everyone on this forum for their input but I'm sort of "raced" out."

Then why do you call your blog Conservative BLACK Woman?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

"You're starting to look like Denzel Washington in the closing scene from "Training Day".

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!! "King Kong..Ain't Got NUTHIN...ON Me!!!!!" lolololololololol

@CBW:

Oh come on, if you and JMK want to act like racism doesn't exist, or act like Malcolm X and Jess Helms are the same (lunacy at best) THAT's you all who want to live in never never land, the social reality of race and WHITE PRIVILAGE and WHITE SUPERIORITY is alive and well, and very alive in the GOP...just ask Micheal Steele...

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

Guess you need a physics lesson of CAUSE and EFFECT:

Jesse Helms - CAUSE
Jesse Jackson - EFFECT

Jim Crow / KKK - CAUSE
Malcolm X - EFFECT

White prvialage - CAUSE
Affirmative Action - EFFECT

Not hard man, not hard, remove the CAUSE the EFFECT leaves soon after...

JMK said...

"might I suggest you explain that whol Jared Taylor thing you got going on, THAT MAN IS a RACIST, pure and simple, so what's up with your admitted reverence for that clown?" (DJBA)
<
<
In FACT, Jared Taylor, like Claude Steele, Charles Murray, William Shockley and Arthur Jensen have all been respected scholars.

Arthur Jensen was contracted by the U.S. Dept of Defense to look into "bias in mental testing." The result was a 1,000+ word tome that ultimately concluded that, contrary to the belief that he went in with (that there was cultural bias) that none existed and that there were disparities in IQ between ALL ethnic groups.

Of course, he, like Charles Murray was quick to point out that "group differences don't mean much on an individual basis." And that's true as, how does the fact that Germans may score near the top of the group IQ ratings, to a German with a subnormal 90 IQ?

Group disparities are meaningless in a world that counts individuals.

William Shockley (Nobel Prize winner as co-inventor of the transistor, the foundation of our current information age) DID NOT, contray to popular belief posit on black/white IQ differentials, he wrote a discourse on DYSGENICS, that is, policies that reward indolence, sloth and the other traits that lead to poverty, while punishing/taxing productivity to pay for the programs that do that, leads inevitably to MORE poverty and LESS productivity and prosperity.

On that score Dr Shockley was RIGHT!

In fact the "dysgenic effect" is, along with what is called "the tragedy of the commons" (free stuff is always overused) the priamry reasons why socialist and Keynesian policies consistently fail abd wind up delivering MORE misery/poverty and LESS productivity/prosperity.

Charles Murray (another highly respected scholar) who's authored such works as, The Coming White Underclass) which chronicles the disparate birth rates in places like Appalachia and other rural, predominantly white poor areas, compared to the lower birth rates in most urban, predominantly black areas.

He and Jim Herndon's 1,000 page The Bell Curve dealt with a very REAL problem, what is becoming a permanent caste system - those who go to schools like Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc., generally make more money, send their kids to private "pipelined schools" that assure their entry to those same elite institutions, whereas as few as five decades ago, more than half of Harvard's entering class was comprised of middle class kids whose parents owned small businesses, etc.

A total of about three pages of that work dealt with Dr. Jensen's and other subsequent studies on the group differences on IQ tests and their efficacy.

Jared Taylor is about as controversial a figure as is Claude Steele, the architect of the failed theory of "test anxiety" to explain why blacks tend to do less well on standardized exams than other groups.

Overall, Taylor is a mixed bag. Any intelligent person would agree with many of his views, including his central tenet that, "“Race is an important aspect of individual and group identity. Of all the fault lines that divide society—language, religion, class, ideology—it is the most prominent and divisive. Race and racial conflict are at the heart of the most serious challenges the Western World faces in the 21st century. . . . Attempts to gloss over the significance of race or even to deny its reality only make problems worse.”

On marriage, his views are very similar to Jesse Jackson's (who opined that he wanted his grandchildren to look like him), "I want my grandchildren to look like my grandparents. I don't want them to look like Anwar Sadat or Fu Manchu or Whoopi Goldberg."

On race, Taylor is NOT a "white supremacist" at all! In 2008 Jared Taylor refused to permit David Duke to attend the February 2008 American Renaissance conference.

"Taylor [has] praised the "high average level of attractiveness" of Japanese, both men and women, saying few resemble the "waddling colossi one finds among the American lower classes of all races."

And gone on to say that, "I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society. This doesn't mean that I want America to become Asian. I think every people has a right to be itself, and this becomes clear whether we're talking about Irian Jaya or Tibet, for that matter."

What's odd is that there are so few scholars from ANY ethnic group that have the intellectual courage to make such painful, even controversial insights.

Whether I agree or disagree with him on every issue (I don't) you have to respect that kind of intellectual honesty.

Ultimately, Jared Taylor seems to be exactly what he says he is, "a racial realist."

Just because you disagree, even find some views offensive, doesn't mean they're "racist" views.

I find nearly ALL of Claude Steele's fumbling to explain away disparities beteen groups on standardized exams "offensive" and disagreeable, BUT that does NOT prove that Claude Steele is a "racist."

Same goes for Taylor, Shockley, Jensen and Murray.

JMK said...

"But the point is why would any black person align themselves with these [Helms & Thurmond] orts?" (UTS)


Simply put, THEY AREN'T!

As I clearly noted, "they are not the roots of Conservatism.

"A more open/free market, less government intervention and control and lower tax RATES for everyone are the heart of Conservative principles.

"People who confuse or condemn Conservatism as "rooted in racial bigotry" are almost ALWAYS out-and-out racial bigots themselves."

JMK said...

"I don't think UTS was saying that blacks should be accusatory or demanding in day to day interactions social or business, if that is what you think "I" am saying, for clarifications sake I am saying I DON'T." (DJBA)
<
<
THAT'S very clearly EXACTLY what UTS meant. The statement speaks for itself; "“His tone always had to be soothing and genial.

"He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race.” (UTS)

I acept your re-interpretation for YOURSELF, but it's very clear what UTS meant.

JMK said...

"Guess you need a physics lesson of CAUSE and EFFECT: (DJBA)
<
<
Black bigotry is NOT a RESPONSE to earlier whiote bigotry against blacks.

Like ALL such bigotries it flourishes in the hearts of those who nourish it.

The idea that black bigotry is a "response" is itself rooted in the SAME kind of bigotry that Hitler used to "legitimize" hatred for the Jews.

Get over that simplistic idea.

uptownsteve said...

Uhhhh no it isn't JMK.

What I meant and said repeatedly was that there is a racial double standard in America and you are a walking example of it.

Black men, in order to navigate the American mainstream, have to inhibit their masculinity in order not to scare white people.

We have to talk softly, be friendly and accomodating at all times in order to survive or advance.

Whereas, and I've seen this constantly through my time in the military and in corporate America, white males can be as loud, arrogant and obnoxious as they please and it doesn't hurt their career trajectory.

Early in my corporate career I was fired from a position because I finally went off on a white colleague who had been harrassing me for weeks.

You come on this board all bluster and bombast and seem to expect people to be reverential to you.

It's amazing.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Black bigotry is NOT a RESPONSE to earlier whiote bigotry against blacks."

Hell if it ain't, you beat someone down for 400 years, don't be surprised if they hit back, if anything, you should be celebrating the fact that whatever socioligical brainwashing that was done seems to have made sure black peopel DON'T hit back...at least not as hard as I would, lukcy for you all, I listen to Jesus on the issue...

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Conservative Black Woman said...

"Then why do you call your blog Conservative BLACK Woman"

Because that's what I am. But but I have more than those 3 dimensions to my person. I may feel differently tomorrow but today I'm just exhausted with this fight but don't let me stop you guys. Lastly, Strom Thurman and Jesse Helm are democrats so my hat is not pitched in the ring with either of them. Carry on Gentleman....Ta Ta.

uptownsteve said...

"Black bigotry is NOT a RESPONSE to earlier whiote bigotry against blacks."

How is Jesse Jackson a bigot?

Because he pisses racists like you off?

ROTFLMBAO!!!!!

JMK said...

"I am grateful to everyone on this forum for their input but I'm sort of "raced" out. I wonder what it is that we could all talk about where race wouldn't come up?" (CBW)


It IS an unfortunate reality, especially considering that race itself is an almost entirely artificial construct - Pakistanis and Indians (from India) are considered caucasian despite their dark skin and Polynesians and other East Islanders are considered Asian despite their pirmentation being closer to sub-Saharan Africans, than most Asians.

There is probably a better way to construct things, but that way is ellusive.

Conservative Talk Show Host Barry Farber (a Jewish Southerner) once started a group called ENOUGH, that sought to unite "the decent (those who believed in traditional values, etc.) against the indecent."

A concept that seemed to try and highlight the difference between "the race" and "the breed."

Apparently and unfortunately, not an easy concept to popularize.

uptownsteve said...

"Lastly, Strom Thurman and Jesse Helm are democrats so my hat"

WHAT???!!!???

Thurmond and Helms were two of the first southern segs to bolt them Democratic and join the Republicans when they presented themselves as the "White Peoples Party."

And have remained as such for the next 40 years.

uptownsteve said...

I swear this arrogance knows no bounds.

He expresses admiration for a white supremacist but flippantly refers to Jesse Jackson as a bigot.

And does it with a straight face.

JMK said...

"How is Jesse Jackson a bigot?

"Because he pisses racists like you off?" (UTS)
<
<
I acknowledge your severe limitations UTS, so let me explain that I DID NOT initially link Jesse Jackson to a racial bigot, SOMEONE else DID;

Jesse Helms - CAUSE
Jesse Jackson - EFFECT


Jim Crow / KKK - CAUSE
Malcolm X - EFFECT


White prvialage - CAUSE
Affirmative Action - EFFECT


What I actually stated, and apparently you missed, was that there is NO "cause and effect" in such things, that ALL such bigotry is a stand-alone trait, usually born of xenophobia. ALL such bigotry pretends to be and is "perceived to be" a "response to earlier bigotries" - it NEVER IS.

But for the record, Jesse Jackson (who infamously called New York "Hymietown" back in 1984 and his 2008 remark, "I wanna cut his nuts off" in relation to Barack Obama's saying that black fathers should be turning off their kid's TVs and doing homework with them) has far MORE often than NOT dabbled in racial bigotry, masquerading it as "social activism."

JudyBright said...

Come on JMK, bigotry begets bigotry, it's a fact of life and a result of the fallen nature of man. When someone persecutes us or treats us unfairly, instead of forgiving we hate right back.

This does not make black bigotry against whites right, but you can see where some of it comes from.

JMK said...

"He expresses admiration for a white supremacist but flippantly refers to Jesse Jackson as a bigot." (UTS)

Try reading UTS.

Jared Taylor is NOT a "white supremacist." He refused to permit David Duke to attend the February 2008 American Renaissance conference and he's said, "I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society. This doesn't mean that I want America to become Asian. I think every people has a right to be itself, and this becomes clear whether we're talking about Irian Jaya or Tibet, for that matter," - hardly a "white supremacist thing to say.

Both Al Sharpton (calling Jews "white interlopers" in Harlem prompting the burning of Freddie's Sporting Goods store, an arson carried by a Sharpton acholyte that killed five minority youths working in the store) and Jesse Jackson ("Hymietown" and "I wanna cut his nuts off") have dabbled in racial bigotry "early and often" in their respective careers.

As for, "You come on this board all bluster and bombast and seem to expect people to be reverential to you."

All I've done is respond to your bone-headed ignorance with FACTS, ad I've done so without resorting to calling you names. I've actually treated you better than you've treated others (CF and CB in particular) around here.

And I don't expect anything from others.

People respond as they will.

Most people are open to dialogue, while you come off like a craven racial bigot.

I don't expect anything more from you UTS, I'm certain you're doing the best you can.

JMK said...

"Come on JMK, bigotry begets bigotry, it's a fact of life and a result of the fallen nature of man. When someone persecutes us or treats us unfairly, instead of forgiving we hate right back." (Judy Bright)
<
<
Bigotry and hate DO tend to beget more of the same.

I thoroughly reject the premise that THAT'S the etiology of today's black bigotry, which seems shared by a decided minority within that ethnic group.

There is no cause for that effect, any more than there was a cause for earlier white bigotry's effect from blacks.

Rationalizing bigotry is a very dangerous game.

uptownsteve said...

"Jared Taylor is NOT a "white supremacist"

BULL$HIT.

Jared Taylor, a Racist in the Guise of 'Expert'
by Dennis Roddy


On Martin Luther King Jr. Day last week, when much of the nation took a holiday, "race-relations expert" Jared Taylor was hard at work. He began at 6:45 a.m. with an interview with a Columbus radio station. At 7:05 he was on the air in Orlando. An hour later his voice greeted morning commuters in Huntingdon, W.Va.

At 10:10 a.m., he was introduced no fewer than four times as "race relations expert Jared Taylor" on Fred Honsberger's call-in show on the Pittsburgh Cable News Channel. Four hours later, he was back on the air with Honsberger on KDKA radio, where he repeated the message he'd been thumping all day: Martin Luther King Jr. was a philanderer, a plagiarist and a drinker who left a legacy of division and resentment, and was unworthy of a national holiday.

What Taylor did not say, and what Honsberger didn't seem to know until I picked up the phone and called in myself, was that Jared Taylor believes black people are genetically predisposed to lower IQs that whites, are sexually promiscuous because of hyperactive sex drives. Race-relations expert Jared Taylor keeps company with a collection of racists, racial "separatists" and far-right extremists.

Taylor heads the Virginia-based New Century Foundation. Its board of directors has included a leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens, successor to the White Citizens Councils of the 1960s. A former board member represented the American Friends of the British National Party, a neo-fascist and anti-Semitic far-right group in England. Another board member is an anti-immigration author who has also reviewed books for a Holocaust denial journal.

Race-relations expert Jared Taylor publishes American Renaissance magazine, which features an array of pseudoscientific studies that purport to show the folly of multiculturalism and the inherent failure of the races to live together. Or, as Taylor once wrote, "If whites permit themselves to be displaced, it is not just the high culture of the West that could disappear but such things as representative government, rule of law and freedom of speech, which whites usually get right and everyone else usually gets wrong."

What Taylor represents and how he got himself on no fewer than a half-dozen radio and television stations in large markets to denounce Martin Luther King illustrates the new tactics of white supremacy. Employing the dispassionate language of sociological and genetic studies, and under the veneer of academic inquiry, an assortment of highly educated people now push the theory that everything from unwed motherhood in Atlanta to economic collapse in Gambia can be explained by the genetic code imprinted on the races.

With a magazine that sounds as if it might be found on a coffee table in Mt. Lebanon, a degree from Yale, and fluency in three languages, Taylor easily found takers when his assistants blasted e-mails to scores of radio stations offering a Martin Luther King Day guest.

"Not everyone celebrates the legacy of Martin Luther King," the pitch reads. "Editor of American Renaissance magazine and race-relations expert Jared Taylor would be pleased to offer your listeners a view of Dr. King that challenges conventional wisdom."

Taylor's resume, conveniently linked to the e-mail, was formidable: bachelor's from Yale, master's in economics from the Institute for Political Study in Paris, business consultant in Japan, author of a quartet of books, two of them on race. It was all true, but gave nary a hint of what Taylor is really about.

"Jared Taylor is the cultivated, cosmopolitan face of white supremacy," said Mark Potok, editor of Intelligence Report, the magazine of the Southern Poverty Law Center. "He is the guy who is providing the intellectual heft, in effect, to modern-day Klansmen."

Taylor insists leftists are simply using that language to demonize intellectuals who take on sensitive issues.

"I've never been a member of the Klan. I've never known a person who is a member of the Klan," Taylor told Honsberger.

It's hard to say if Taylor knows any Klansmen, but they certainly know him. When conservative author Dinesh D'Souza attended one of Taylor's American Renaissance conferences, he bumped into David Duke, former Klansman and segregationist, chatting with Taylor. Another Klan stalwart is Don Black, whose neo-Nazi Web site, Stormfront.org, is a clearinghouse for extremist literature. Black gained celebrity in 1981 when he was arrested as he boarded a boat for Dominica where he and nine other mercenaries planned to overthrow that predominantly black island's government and install a white colonial junta. Potok, whose group occasional infiltrates Taylor's gatherings, sent me a photo of Black sitting at Jared Taylor's kitchen table, a beer in hand.

Maybe Taylor doesn't know any Klansmen, but before selling his house he might have to spray for them.

Taylor's strategy when I confronted him was to deny things that are easily proven. He insisted American Renaissance had never published an article in which theocratic writer Rousas J. Rushdoony denounced interracial marriage as Biblically unsound.

I refer Taylor to the July 2001 edition of his own magazine, in which H.A. Scott Trask calls intermarriage "racial suicide" and observes: "The Late Rousas J. Rushdoony points out that Biblical law and example is against all kinds of unequal yoking. 'The burden of the law is thus against inter-religious, interracial, and inter-cultural marriages, in that they normally go against the very community which marriage is designed to establish."

One of the more tendentious exchanges took place when I challenged Taylor to state whether he had published articles in "the quarterly of the British National Party."

"I don't believe the BNP has a quarterly," Taylor replied.

He's right. They have a monthly. It's called "Spearhead," and it carried Taylor's writings in the early 1990s, under his other name, Samuel Taylor. This relationship is no accident. Taylor's conferences have included speeches on white nationalism by none other than Nick Griffin, a Holocaust denier and leader of the BNP. Spearhead's editor, John Tyndall, toured the United States last year. After stops to visit David Duke in New Orleans, where Tyndall noted with disapproval the large number of racial minorities, he moved on to Oakton, Va., where he stayed at Taylor's home.

Before that, Tyndall was treated to lunch by Samuel Francis, one of the board members of Taylor's New Century Foundation.

A decade ago, Francis was fired by The Washington Times for a racist speech he delivered at an American Renaissance Conference. Since then he has busied himself as editor of The Citizens Informer, monthly paper of The Council of Conservative Citizens. The paper features regular accounts of invasions by non-white immigrants, black-on-white crime and the need for racial purity.

Those who would suggest that the Council's connections to Francis and Francis's ties to Taylor are guilt-by-association might want to consider the New Century Foundation's own tax filings for 1999. On line 80 of their IRS Form 990, Taylor's foundation lists the Council of Conservative Citizens as an organization to which it is "related ... through common membership, governing bodies, trustees, officers, etc."

This was the very year that the Council of Conservative Citizens included a link on its Web site to the Free Market Party. The link was quickly cancelled when the Free Market Party's founder and sole member, Richard Baumhammers, left his Mt. Lebanon home with a pistol in hand, killed his Jewish neighbor, set her house afire, then embarked on a two-county rampage that targeted Asians, Indians and blacks. In all, five people died. Baumhammers was concerned, like those who circle Jared Taylor's planet of intellect, about the expansion of non-white races.

None of this, of course, would meet with the approval of Jared Taylor, race-relations expert, who took the pains to tell Honsberger that people should be free to marry whomever they want, and that suggestions he is a racist are meant simply to shut up anyone who wants to rationally discuss race outside the norms of safe politics.

Such assurances would be more comforting if the audience that orbits planet Jared did not include members of the National Alliance, the Council of Conservative Citizens, the British National Party, Don Black, and David Duke. Taylor says he doesn't know any Klansmen. What is scarier is that he doesn't know his audience -- and the radio stations that gave him a platform on Martin Luther King Jr. Day didn't really know their guest.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

You have lost any credibility you had with me with that Jared Taylor guy you keep defending, and you ahve the nerve to talk about Jesse Jackson? Hell I don't even lik Jesse Sr, but you Taylor thing is inane.

Again, you may not be a racist, but you are a fool if you think Taylor isn't.

uptownsteve said...

JMK

You are such an incredible liar and a phony it's pathetic.

First off, Sharpton wasn't even their when the store was burned.

Jackson made the Hymietown remark in a private conversation that was divulged to the press by an ambitious black reporter.

You never used a racial slur in private?

PUH-LEEZE.

Jack Germond of the Baltimore Sun who covered Capitol Hill for 40 years said that if he had revealed the private language of many of the political leaders of the 20th Century he could have destroyed their careers.

That was the good ol boy network.

Ed Koch, as reported in his unauthorized biography "I,Koch" repeatedly referred to black people as "schvartzes".

Will you call him a bigot?

I bet you don't.

Double standard.

JMK said...

"First off, Sharpton wasn't even their when the store was burned." (UTS)

Why are you defending an obvious racial bigot (Al Sharpton)?

FACT is, after his "white interloper" speech, one of his acholytes set fire to that store, killing five people (ALL of them minority youths).

"In 1995, a black Pentecostal Church, the United House of Prayer, which owned a retail property on 125th Street, asked Fred Harari, a Jewish tenant who operated Freddie's Fashion Mart, to evict his longtime subtenant, a black-owned record store called The Record Shack. Sharpton led a protest in Harlem against the planned eviction of The Record Shack. Sharpton told the protesters, "We will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business."

"Jackson made the Hymietown remark in a private conversation that was divulged to the press by an ambitious black reporter." (UTS)

So, that makes it OK?!

You're a dope.

"Ed Koch, as reported in his unauthorized biography "I,Koch" repeatedly referred to black people as "schvartzes"." (UTS)


The Yiddish word "schvartzes" literally means "black," what's your point?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

He says that Taylor ISN'T a Racist, but that Jackson, Sharpton, etc. ARE BIGOTS.

The irony is simply amazing...

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"The Yiddish word "schvartzes" literally means "black," what's your point?"

Oy Veh, ask a non-Black Jew (or even a Black one like my grandmother)

It is CLEARLY an INSULT, and you are in NYC, the Boogie Down no less, and you didn't know that?

JMK said...

"Jared Taylor is NOT a "white supremacist" (JMK)
<
<
"BULL$HIT." (UTS)
<
<
"Again, you may not be a racist, but you are a fool if you think Taylor isn't." (DJBA)
<
<
Posting an article by the adle brained Pittsburgh-based Dennis Roddy isn't a "proof."

Roddy's article is filled with suppositions and personal editorializing.

Jared Taylor's own ACTIONS and words demonstrate that he is NOT a "white supremacist." He refused to permit David Duke to attend the February 2008 American Renaissance conference and he's said, "I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society. This doesn't mean that I want America to become Asian. I think every people has a right to be itself, and this becomes clear whether we're talking about Irian Jaya or Tibet, for that matter," - hardly a "white supremacist thing to say.

What's really most controversial about Taylor's views is that there are so few people from ANY ethnic group that have the intellectual courage to make such painful, unpopular insights.

Whether I agree or disagree with him on every issue (I don't) you have to respect that kind of intellectual honesty.

Just because you disagree, even find some views offensive, doesn't mean they're "racist" views.

I find nearly ALL of Claude Steele's fumbling to explain away disparities beteen groups on standardized exams "offensive" and disagreeable, BUT that does NOT prove that Claude Steele is a "racist."

Same goes for Taylor, Shockley, Jensen and Murray. Many people may find much of what they say "offensive," and some of their theories and views may, in fact, be wrong, but none of that makes them "racists."

uptownsteve said...

"It is CLEARLY an INSULT, and you are in NYC, the Boogie Down no less, and you didn't know that?"

He knew it.

He's just doing what he does.

Demonizing blacks who piss him off and making excuses for white racism.

BTW, I don't even like Sharpton or Jackson.

I wish they'd both just retire and be quiet.

The hypocrisy and inconsistency of people like JMK is astounding.

Hymietown is a insult but "schvartze" isn't.

Jared Taylor an avowed white supremacist is not a racist but Al Sharpton is.

Un-freakin-believable.

JMK said...

"It is CLEARLY an INSULT, and you are in NYC, the Boogie Down no less, and you didn't know that?" (DJBA)
<
<
I just told you what that word means.

The fact that some blacks call it "an insult," is as kooky as some whites finding the term "blancos" offensive.

I'm sure there are such people, but personal offense is not indicative of racial insensitivty or bigotry.

uptownsteve said...

Let's try this again.

"It's hard to say if Taylor knows any Klansmen, but they certainly know him. When conservative author Dinesh D'Souza attended one of Taylor's American Renaissance conferences, he bumped into David Duke, former Klansman and segregationist, chatting with Taylor."

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"The fact that some blacks call it "an insult," is as kooky as some whites finding the term "blancos" offensive."

Oh come on, the word "Negrito" is a spanish adjective, doesn't change the fact that when it is used in regard to a person, the term is often MEANT to be offensive as is the Yiddish word "schvartze", it isn't abou if we take it offensive it is meant to be offensive.

Now you're just being silly.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Jared Taylor's own ACTIONS and words demonstrate that he is NOT a "white supremacist."

His words state that he BELIEVES Whites are superior to Blacks preicated on "Race", he feels that Whites may be inferior to Asians, predicated on race.

The man is a racist, a supremacist and a moron.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW & CF:

I hope this brings some light to your eyes, how JMK is acting, the support of that clown Taylor, the insensativity or lack of even any attempt at empathy when it comes to issues African Americans face, is the VERY attitude prevelent in the GOP which would cause me NEVER to be a republican or identify as a conservative

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

Believe me nether CBW nor CF will ever acknowledge the truth about people like JMK nor will they ever confront them.

The role of black conservative is present the resentment and anger of white bigots in blackface.

The second they stand up and be free men and women, they would get put in their place quickly and severely.

Michael Steele publicly kissing Rush Limbaugh's ass a mere 24 hours after bravely telling the truth about Drugbo is a stark example of this.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

"Michael Steele publicly kissing Rush Limbaugh's ass a mere 24 hours after bravely telling the truth about Drugbo is a stark example of this."

I am inclined to agree. Anyway Uptown, what's your e-mail address man? Mine is djblackadam@yahoo.com, hit a brotha up.

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

Will do.

Mine is vaughfair@aol.com

Later.

uptownsteve said...

make that vaughnfair@aol.com

JudyBright said...

@DJBA

I hope this brings some light to your eyes, how JMK is acting, the support of that clown Taylor, the insensativity or lack of even any attempt at empathy when it comes to issues African Americans face, is the VERY attitude prevelent in the GOP which would cause me NEVER to be a republican or identify as a conservative

I don't know who Taylor is so I can't comment intelligently on that, but as a conservative Republican I do find JMK's tone frustrating and unproductive. To refuse to acknowledge any racism or racial problems in this country is ridiculous. To think that black men do not have to watch how they act in the corporate world is absurd. And I mean more than just having to be polite like everyone else.

I think it's tragic since I believe in conservative ideals are what will help this nation, no matter what the color or gender or economic status, but often conservative white guys just being insensitive jerks turns people off before they can ever hear the message.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Judy:

“I think it's tragic since I believe in conservative ideals are what will help this nation, no matter what the color or gender or economic status, but often conservative white guys just being insensitive jerks turns people off before they can ever hear the message.”

It is very tragic and seriously unnecessary. I am not a liberal for a few reasons as well, being a Christian, I can identify with many social issues that are part of the Conservative platform, heck I almost voted for McCain (it was his lack of increase of support of the New GI Bill reforms that done him in with me).

However, there a few fiscal ideals that the right has that are repulsive to me and run counter to the Christianity I practice, this whole indifference to racial realities and bordeerline racist rhetoric used to divide and instill fear is cheif amongst those reasons.

In either case, these are the type of issues that hopefully will destroy this incarnation of the GOP, and hopefully maybe an actual conservative party that isn’t indifferent to people who happen not to be White males or “Joe six pack” (Which was code for uneducated White males, why they weren’t offended by that is beyond me).

Devon said...

UTS, your greatest enemy is the one you look in the mirror every day...you are a bitter jerk who uses the race card for every imagined insult you feel is thrown your way!!

Bitter, stupid, angry and unforgiving is a horrible way to go through life Steve...

Sadly, I have met your kind before...from all races...

You are a blamer that takes no responsibility for their actions...everything is someone else's fault...

It is so plain to see...but you yourself cannot see it because you are blinded by hatred and unforgiveness!!

Perhaps you are still young and you will grow up....I do not wish anyone to be as bitter and hateful as yourself..and that is the Truth!

Dev

JMK said...

"His words state that he BELIEVES Whites are superior to Blacks preicated on "Race", he feels that Whites may be inferior to Asians, predicated on race." (DJBA)
<
<
Jared Taylor's own ACTIONS and words demonstrate that he is NOT a "white supremacist." He refused to permit David Duke to attend the February 2008 American Renaissance conference and he's said, "I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society. This doesn't mean that I want America to become Asian. I think every people has a right to be itself, and this becomes clear whether we're talking about Irian Jaya or Tibet, for that matter," - hardly a "white supremacist thing to say.

A "supremacist believes in his own group's "supremacy, which of course, Taylor does not.

Bigots are motivated by hatred based on religious, cultural, or perceived racial differences or grievances. Taylor exudes none of those.

Some of his conclusions may be controversial, some may be wrong, but none of them appear based on any kind of racial hatred.

That's something few of his opponents can claim.

JMK said...

"To refuse to acknowledge any racism or racial problems in this country is ridiculous." (Judy Bright)
<
<
There is indeed "racism" (racial bigotry) and "racial problems in this country....on BOTH sides of the issue, by BOTH blacks and whites.

What I and many others black and white will not do is rationalize one form of bigotry (anti-white bigotry by blacks) as some kind of "natural response."

That claim leads to an impasse and to ceaseless conflict.

JMK said...

"Oh come on, the word "Negrito" is a spanish adjective, doesn't change the fact that when it is used in regard to a person, the term is often MEANT to be offensive as is the Yiddish word "schvartze", it isn't abou if we take it offensive it is meant to be offensive." (DJBA)
<
<
Again, the fact that some hypersensitive people take offense to words that mean simply "black" or "white", says more about them, than the words they find "offensive."

Blanco, negrito, schvartze are not racial slurs any more than "black" or "white" are slurs.

JMK said...

"The role of black conservative is present the resentment and anger of white bigots in blackface." (UTS)
<
<
I've never seen ANY anger from either black or white Conservatives.

None of the black Conservatives you've villified here (CB, CF, etc) have ever expressed "anger" or "resentments," they tend to be very spiritual, often religious people who adhere to traditional values, support less government intrusion and lower taxes, things like that.

Ironically enough, the only one who's posted angry, snarling, insulting posts to other folks (folks like CB and CF) is you.

The fact that you associate those things that have appeal to people of all backgrounds as part of a "white supremacist viewpoint" is indicative of the deep racial patholgy you have.

JMK said...

...“Joe six pack” (Which was code for uneducated White males, why they weren’t offended by that is beyond me)." (DJBA)
<
<
It was meant as a derogatory term and it was taken as such.

Perhaps you were too "elite" to notice that.

Fact is, white workingclass people are virtually invisible.

They vote, they do tend to be moderate, Center-Right, but they are derided more so than any other group.

Hell, Joe "the plumber" Wurzelburger was treated worse than anyone who ran for office last year....only Sarah Palin (who'd, ironically enough, represented a largely white workingclass town - Wasilla, Alaska) was treated near as badly.

That's not at all atypical for the mainstream media (MSM)...and it hasn't been atypical for over a generation.

Then again, the MSM is predominatly Libeal and left-of-Center, so that antipathy is easily figured out.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"Blanco, negrito, schvartze are not racial slurs any more than "black" or "white" are slurs."

You are a hopeless cretin. Simple as that, you excuse 400 years of BLATANT White privilage and supremacy and the next 100 years of "not so blatant" with false equivilences of "Black Racism".

You are a faux intellectual, who spouts inane ramblings as if they were facts.

I don't think you are a racist, but you are clearly a moron.

Shalom

JMK said...

WHY do liberals routinely resort to empty insults, when they can't offer an argument?

I'm a working man NOT "an intellectual."

An "intellectual" is a person who gets paid to separate thought and ideology from action and reality.

I've shared my views openly on a number of subjects here.

You claim that Jared Taylor is a "white supremacist", despite the fact that his own words and actions seem to prove that not to be the case. He may be controverisal in many instances and wrong on some things, but that's no different than Claude Steele's record of controversy and inaccuracy.

In fact, there are racial "supremacist" educators, like Michael Levin and Leonard Jeffries who make no bones about their white and black supremacist views respectively.

Hopefully all Americans agree that even those, like Dr Levin and Dr Jeffries (both of CUNY) have every right to hold and to teach their mostly vile views and very odd racial theories in a free country.

You claim that terms that clearly mean "black" and "white" are "racist" slurs, when general usage shows them not to be that.

As difficult and ocasionally painful as dialogue about race can often be, it can be positive, so long as people can start from a mutually accepted position.

My own minimum mutual position would be an agreement on BOTH sides that NO form of bigotry can be rationalized as "a natural or legitimate response," or that one side's petty bigotries are justified, while the other's are not.

You apparenly vehemently reject even that bare minimum requirement for such a dialogue, so there's really no way to engage in such an exchange with yourself.

I still don't get the insults though. Online insults, especially, have no meaning. It's not only that I don't know you, our exchanges (the only things I can "know" about you) have given me no reason to even respect your views, which seem to revolve around your thinking "elitism is a good thing," that an "intellectual" is something to aspire to and worst of all that black bigotry is somehow justified as a "response," which conveniently alleviates its purveyors from "owning" and "taking responsibility for it."

I revile "elitism" of any kind, I have no respect for "intellectuals", most of whom are actually pseudo-intellectuals" anyway and I can't move beyond a position where ALL bigotries are seen as equally wrong, without any attempt to ratioanlize ethnic, religious or cultural hatred/bigotry from any perspective.

So, there's really no way for people whose basic viewpoints and positions are so completely antithetical, even alien to each other's to really communicate in any effective manner.

I DID however, enjoy the attempt.

uptownsteve said...

Dev,

"You are a blamer that takes no responsibility for their actions...everything is someone else's fault..."

"It is so plain to see...but you yourself cannot see it because you are blinded by hatred and unforgiveness!!"

Dev sweetie, produce a quote from me where I'm "blamed" anyone for my actions or expressed a stereotype or hostility for any race or group of people and I swear that I will disappear from this board forever.

If you can't, then I can expect an apology.

Go.

Yeah, right.

JMK cheerleads for a blatant racist demogogue Jared Taylor and I'M blinded by hatred?

uptownsteve said...

"I've never seen ANY anger from either black or white Conservatives."

Not even Devon just a few posts back?

ROTFLMBAO!!@!!!!!

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

“I can't move beyond a position where ALL bigotries are seen as equally wrong, without any attempt to ratioanlize ethnic, religious or cultural hatred/bigotry from any perspective.”

Again, you act as a typical right winger, reducing arguments down to a THIS or THAT as if the extremes you posit are the actualities being discussed.

You operate to forward falsehoods predicated on fictions; I cannot abide that, and as such, no need for exchange, because you have no desire for truth or understanding. Which is the true determiner between the commoners, the 80% who are lead around by their base instinct manipulated by the 15% and ignorant to the 5% which I am an admittedly elite member of, hate it or love it.

You’re right, I should not have resorted to base insults and for that I apologize, even in retaliation to your veiled ones, suffice to say, you are willfully ignorant, which is not an insult, but a statement of fact predicated on all that you have written here.

democat said...

To JMK:

What the hell do you mean, black bigotry is not a legit response to white bigotry? Do you honestly believe that black people just woke up one day and out of nowhere decided that they just hated white people WITHOUT a single justifiable reason? 300 years of hatred/blatant racial discrimination mandated by the laws of this land wasn't ENOUGH reason? Honestly, being a white person, you have NEVER had to deal with prejudice in your life, and never will have to, so you are in NO position to be telling black people what the hell they should and should NOT feel about it.

dushman said...

testing...testing

dushman said...

Sorry---was interrupted.

Anyway, back to JMK:

It's been said that black and white people live in 2 entirely different worlds, and you're a living example of that, otherwise you would not be speaking out of the ignorance you display.

About affirmation action--AA was created in the first damn place because before 1964,black people (and people of color as well as women--in general) were deliberately and systematically excluded form the majority of high-paying power positions int he workplace, no matter HOW much education or qualifications they had. It had nothing to do with preference and everything todo with making sure that companies actually hired qualified black folks PERIOD, because they sure as hell were never going to do it on their own unless the government MADE them, and that's what the civil rights fighters fought for, mind you. Do your research,please. AA was also a big boon for white women getting into the workplace, but its detractors acted as if only undeserving unqualified black peopole were getting in, which was not the case. You have the unmitigated gall lto talk about "4 decades of preferential treatment", funny how you never mention the well-over 300 years of preferential treatment WHITE peole have had in practically EVERY facet of life in this country, simply because they are the majority. 40 years is a mere drop in the bucket compared to that, so I could give less than a damn about white men whining about how they got cut out of a job due to AA when they're ALWAYS had every advantage over everybody else in this country merely BECAUSE they're white,regardless of qualifications. And since AA is now history in most states, who or what are you going to blame when you get laid off?

To CBW:

That article by JB Williams (I did read the whole article) basically came off as mainly a diatribe of fear-mongering against Obama--and that whole thing about his race is so ridiculous--he's clearly a BLACK man. Why do white people think that just because his mama was white that that automatically cancels out his blackness? That's a racist concept in itself, and has nothing to do with whether he can handle the job or not. Newsflash--he's a black man because he not only clearly LOOKS like one, but because that's how he identifies. And all stupid allegations about him hanging with terrorists have been disproven---it's just old news at this point. Yes, I voted for Obama, and while he's obviously not perfect, just a flawed human being like everyone else, I don't understand how you or Williams can sit there and blame him for the mess this country's in when the economy collasped under Bush's watch. Bush also kicked those bailouts to the bank without putting anything in place to ensure that they were held accountable for every dime spent. I voted for Obama because I thought he had something new to bring to the table, not just because I wanted a black president or because I was too stupid to check out whether he actually stood for something, which is what YOU said, CBW. That's an insult to me and to the many black voters who voted for Obama. The problem with McCain is that I don't believe he could relate to how hard it is for the average everyday laid-off unemployed person like myself here in Detroit who can not find a job, no matter how hard they look, because there almost aren't any.

I mean, this dude owns 9 houses, is married to one of the richest women in America---when has he ever in his life has to worry about where his last paycheck was coming from? We did not need another spoiled rich guy for President---one was enough. Unless either Bush or McCain, Obama actually had to work his way into making something of himself---he didn't have a rich family to pave every step of the way for him. He strikes as someone who has more of a connection with how the average American lives and has to struggle, and still does.

Anyway, CBW, you actually sound like a rational, thoughtful person, but your rants against Obama border on the paranoid---he's not the Messiah, but he sure as hell ain't the Antichrist,either. He's had to deal with all this mess (the fallout from Bush's reign) that was dumped in his lap from day one---instead of simply criticizing and picking at every little thing he's doing, I suggest you come up with some solutions on how he could solve our country's problems, instead of waiting around until 2012 for some great Republican savior to sweep in change everything, because that ain't gonna happen anytime soon--Obama's is the president---get over it,please.

Another thing---the saying that black people have to work twice as hard to get ahead more than white people---I actually heard my godmother,who was a well-educated high-school teacher herself say that to my Sunday school class when I was 8 years old. NO, it dosen't mean you have to be twice as dumb to study twice as hard, like your friend said--it means a black person has to better at what they do best than the average white person--they can't just be average, they have to be on top of their game at ALL times. If you study twice as hard, that makes you twice as smart---your friend dosen't know what the hell she was talking about making that statement---that's been pretty much an accepted mantra among black folks since we're been in this country almost.

And the hell with Jared Taylor---why did he say he dosen't want his grandkids to look like 3 non-white people specifically? He can say all he wants, but inthe end, he has NO control over who his kids are gonna have kids with----i guess he's gonna kill himself if he has a black grandson,huh? How sad and pathetic.

DJ Black Adam said...

@dushman:

"he's not the Messiah, but he sure as hell ain't the Antichrist,either"

Well said.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Dushman~I'm the first to admit that when it comes to PSBO I sometimes need to reel it in a bit but as you can see UTS & DJBA don't let me get away with much without a challenge. I have finally convinced myself (I think) that PSBO isn't the Anti-Christ but I do believe that black folks are not going to hold him accountable for his actions which are already negatively effecting my purse strings. I know Bush got the ball rolling, and no one can turn things around in 64 days but dang...he is making it worse. It boggles my mind that intelligent people,I'm not even considering the ignorant folk who support PSBO are so intoxicated with the fact that we have a black president that they are unwilling to critically assess his performance and seem willing to excuse his actions because the "evil" right are perceived racist.

I suck at analogies but let me give it a try...it's almost like PSBO could be hurling a hand grenade towards you but if Rush Limbaugh says "watch out" you would not heed because he is a perceived racist and by the time you realize that he was right it would be too late to move because PSBO's aim was spot-on and your obliterated -- but your family can take solace that you died happy cause we have our first black president.

Conservative Black Woman said...

oops, I meant you're obliterated.

JMK said...

"You operate to forward falsehoods predicated on fictions..." (DJBA)


There is nothing fale or fioctitious about the FACT that there is no such thing as "retaliatory bigotry."

ALL bigotry is rooted in the individual who espouses it....NO outside forces "cause" that.

That's not an opinion.

JMK said...

"What the hell do you mean, black bigotry is not a legit response to white bigotry? Do you honestly believe that black people just woke up one day and out of nowhere decided that they just hated white people WITHOUT a single justifiable reason?" democrat)


Uhhhh, I don't believe most black people "hate white people," just as I don't believe most whites hate blacks.

Those who DO are as irrational and unjustified in their bigotry as any white bigot...and ALL bigots try and "rationalize" and justify their own hate.

In fact, black anti-white bigots are ignorant of history.

If "whites owe blacks for slavery and other past abuses," then blacks owe whites (specific whites) a great debt - more Irish fought in the Civil War than there were slave owners (5% of the Southerners).

No, there's no ratioanl way to justify bigotry on either side.

So, yeah, those who hate others because of their race literally "just woke up one day and hated others for no reason," either that, or they were taught to hate by peers or family.

JMK said...

“...before 1964,black people (and people of color as well as women--in general) were deliberately and systematically excluded form the majority of high-paying power positions int he workplace, no matter HOW much education or qualifications they had.” (Dushman)
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Lots of groups were discriminated against prior to 1964.

Blacks were indeed sorely discriminated against, more so than most, in fact, BUT, they weren’t, as you suggest, barred from education, the arts, or starting and owning business empires.

Way back in 1869, Robert Tanner Freeman became the first black dentist to receive the D.M.D. degree from Harvard University

Just three years later, Charlotte Ray earned a law degree in 1872 from Howard University and was admitted to the bar in the District of Columbia.

In 1919 writer and motion-picture director Oscar Micheaux made The Homesteader, the first full-length film directed by an African American.

In 1853 William Wells Brown wrote Clotel; or, The President's Daughter, the first novel by an African American author.

Scholar and diplomat Ralph J. Bunche became, in 1950, the first African American to win a Nobel Peace Prize. Bunche received the award for his role as the architect of United Nations (UN) peacekeeping efforts and for having negotiated the four armistice agreements that halted the Arab-Israeli War of 1948.

In 1950 poet and novelist Gwendolyn Brooks became the first African American to win the Pulitzer Prize, which she received for her second book of poetry, Annie Allen (1949).

And way back in the 1930s, S.B. Fuller parlayed his innate intelligence and organizing skills into a multimillion dollar conglomerate of companies throughout the United States. He became a leader in the sales of cosmetics, starting his first cosmetics firm, the Fuller Products Company, in 1935, with $25. He ultimately owned or controlled eight other corporations, which included the Courier newspaper chain [with papers in Pittsburgh, Chicago, New York and Detroit], a Chicago department store, and a New York real estate trust.

In 1953, future Police and Fire Commissioners respectively, Ben Ward and Augustus Beekman wrote two of the top scores on the NYPD and FDNY entrance exams. Both those men studied and rose up the ranks before there were any race-based preferences in place.

None of those people needed preferences or quotas to succeed, it stands to reason that those who’ve come after certainly don’t.

Looks like it’s YOU who didn’t do enough research.
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“It (AA) had nothing to do with preference and everything to do with making sure that companies actually hired qualified black folks PERIOD...” (Dushman)
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Affirmative Action was initially supposed to be about “outreach and recruitment” but it morphed into something very different.

It has been the only officially recognized governmental based preference program ever to exist.
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“...funny how you never mention the well-over 300 years of preferential treatment WHITE peole have had in practically EVERY facet of life in this country, simply because they are the majority.” (Dushman)
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The advantages/preferences that come with being the overwhelming majority of a population are a natural part of the democratic process, so that’s really immaterial. Being the majority has and remains a natural advantage or preference, as whites naturally enjoy throughout Europe and blacks in sub-Saharan Africa and the Caribbean.

Moreover, just as the U.S. and Western Europe (England and France) were among the first to outlaw chattel slavery, it was also among the first and only nations to look to eradicate the past vestiges of discrimination.

Chattel slavery STILL exists in about 70% of the globe, including large tracts of Asia, the Mid-east and most of sub-Saharan Africa.

Institutionalized race-based preferences violate the precepts of equality before the law and equality of OPPORTUNITY (equality of opportunity does NOT imply any equality of outcome or results)...moreover, they handicap those they’re intended to help and they are divisive and polarizing.

DJ Black Adam said...
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DJ Black Adam said...
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DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"ALL bigotry is rooted in the individual who espouses it....NO outside forces "cause" that. That's not an opinion."

No, its just another FALSE dichotomy you present to solidify your faulty argument. ALL CHOICES are made by individuals THAT is true, to choose to hate back is a choice, like if one chooses to HIT BACK after being hit, the choice of violence in retaliation is the choice of the individual.

You are applying a rigid principle based approach and positing by implication that bigotry is wrong even when retaliatory, which I can agree with, however; I posit that though it is wrong in the case of Black not trusting, liking or being prejudiced to Whites (generally not individually), it is to be expected outside of the theory based principles you expound, but inside the practicality of human nature.

Further you ignore the actuality of agitating and mitigating factors, life is full of those types of things, though not excuses for wrong or justifications for right choices, often times these are essential to motivation therefore CAUSE.

Everything has a cause JMK and causes have components to them as well.

JMK said...

"to choose to hate back is a choice, like if one chooses to HIT BACK after being hit, the choice of violence in retaliation is the choice of the individual." (DJBA)
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What I'm saying is that ALL bigotry is retaliatory or perceived to be so.

That's how EVERY bigot rationalizes their own petty bigotries.

Your, even now, still rationalizing a bigotry (anti-white bigotry by blacks) even though you claim not to endorse that.

IF there blacks ACTUALLY rationalized their bigotries based on slavery, segregation, etc., then they'd also accept their debt to those Americans who fought in the Civil War (over 80% of the Union's forces were comprised of Irish-Americans, the bulk of them new immigrants). Since that's not the case, then the initial rationalization is not the case either....it is rooted in each individual.

It's similar to the view I challenged back in 1984, when the prevailing view was "Poverty causes violent crime."

My own review of the prevailing facts seemed to indicate the reverse, that the very same qualities or traits that led to violent crime - poor impulse control the inability to plan and delay gratification, recklessness and irresponsibility, were the very same qualities or traits that led to poverty.

Since then I've made the case that, "Far from poverty leading to increased violence, violent behavior, or the traits that lead to it, also lead to poverty."

Bill Bratton, among others, has taken that same approach, one I wrote about nearly ten years before he became NYC's Police Commissioner and Bill Bratton has revolutionized law enforcement and crime control through a "broken window" approach, one that emphasizes punishment and warehousing violent offenders rather than trying to rehabilitate people who are really irredeemable.

Studies have consistently shown that the ONLY thing that deters violent offenses among those inclined to violence is age and physical/mental degradation, that is their becoming too old.

Same with bigotry, those prone to hate other ethnic groups are and generally remain prone to do so, and they’ll use any, even the flimsiest rationalizations for doing so.

JudyBright said...

JMK,

Explaining bigotry is not the same as rationalizing it or justifying it.

I can "understand" why a black person would be bigoted against whites if that person was routinely mistreated and saw his black friends and relatives mistreated by whites. By understand, I mean I get where it comes from, and might on an individual level offer him some grace as a fellow sinner.

But, I can still recognize this bigotry as wrong and sinful, resulting from the persons fallen sinful nature. And if I had the chance on an individual level would confront him in a constructive manner.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

You are having a “chicken and egg” argument here JMK, I am not.

1. I am not “rationalizing” bigotry; I am looking at in it its CONTEXT it, meaning that, regardless of how “I” feel about it, looking at causes. For example, if a White person says he doesn’t like or trust Blacks because he was robbed by or beaten by Blacks all his life, while I would not agree with his reasoning, I would know what predicates were the factors that caused that person to feel that way. Once the source is identified, then I can begin to reason with that individual, if that person rejects reason and facts outside of their experience, then that person is choosing to hate in spite of any evidence offered otherwise, at which point, my patience soon ends and I write them off to their own devices.

2. I don’t agree with African Americans who generalize and are bigoted to Whites or anyone else for that matter, however; like I said previously, I look at their reasoning, what the cause or source of these feelings are to begin to try to reason with the individual.

Where we divide, is you don’t think it is human nature to hate back or hit back it seems, I do.

As such, I understand some things can be expected to a degree, especially absent any personal interaction between people of other groups.

I do this with White people who have problems with Blacks, Latinos, etc., and any other combo thereof.

I believe a person has to choose righteousness in all things, however; when they don’t, I try to find a way to understand where they are coming from in order to try to lead them where they should be.

As for bigotry as a response to the realties of White privilege, supremacy and the social actuality of the historically horrible treatment in the United States of Blacks by Whites, I don’t think such a response is positive, nor helpful, however I understand that it is human nature many times to be that way. It surprises me more that Blacks have not been MORE bigoted in regards to White people as collectively I see African Americans as historically much more forgiving in this social situations that have existed in the United States than other people groups in other points of history.

In any case, I believe people should assess individuals for the individual, however; I accept the reality that there are group sociological issues that can hinder that. Also, I still find it detestable that YOU offer rationality for people like Jared Taylor yet have the nerve to rail against Jesse Jackson, your inconsistency is telling.

JMK said...

JMK,

"Explaining bigotry is not the same as rationalizing it or justifying it.

"I can "understand" why a black person would be bigoted against whites if that person was routinely mistreated and saw his black friends and relatives mistreated by whites. By understand, I mean I get where it comes from, and might on an individual level offer him some grace as a fellow sinner.

"But, I can still recognize this bigotry as wrong and sinful, resulting from the persons fallen sinful nature. And if I had the chance on an individual level would confront him in a constructive manner." (Judy Bright)
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Now that’s a fine point Judy and correct, so far as it goes, BUT, everyone who expresses hatred for another group justifies or rationalizes it as “retaliatory.”

White bigots, like Dr. Michael Levin supports his own virulently anti-black views based on “the disproportionate violent crime rates,” and he’s right about the crime rates and yes, probably right about his claim that 90% or more of black vs white crime being racially motivated.

I merely reject that rationalization, as I do those of DJBA and others who’d justify anti-white black bigotry on things that aren’t occurring now, as Michael Levin is, but on past events that DJBA and others stretch to believe “still justify or explain why some anti-white bigotry persists today.”

What other reason is there for “explaining why a specific bigotry exists” other than to rationalize or justify it?

For instance, I’ll go out on a limb here and presume that DJBA rejects Professor Michael Levin’s rationalization as “illegitimate,” while continuing to assert that anti-white bigotry by blacks is more “legitimate” or justified,” when in fact, NEITHER IS rational, justifiable no matter how we attempt to explain why it occurs.

In other words, would you care WHY a white anti-black bigot hates you for no reason other than your race?

Same here, I don’t care at all WHY someone else hates me for no reason, either.

Just as current disproportionate crime rates do not rationalize/justify white anti-black bigotry, previous injustices don’t rationalize/justify anti-white bigotry, even though BOTH may “explain” how some innately bigoted people excuse their own bigotries.

People are INDIVIDUALLY responsible for their own actions, irregardless of rationalizations. In the wake of some recent rallies in which some black Americans lauded Lovelle Mixon, some blacks have expressed "being ashamed" over the actions of such people.

In my view, those people have no reason for shame. They aren't supporting Lovelle Mixon and what he did and they bear no responsibility for the actions of others.

Just as I don't accept Michael Levin's rationalizations, I don't acept the rationalizations of those at Uhuru House in Oakland....both are equally lamely trying to justify the unjustifiable.

The problem with accepting one rationalization and not the others is that it leaves us all at an impasse.

I think the only reasonable path is to reject ALL such rationalizations/justifications, even if we can understand the explanations behind them. Without doing that, there is no pathway to a truly open dialogue about such matters.

JudyBright said...

@CBW

JMK said In other words, would you care WHY a white anti-black bigot hates you for no reason other than your race?

I'd be very surprised if a white anti black bigot hated me just for my race. I'd be very confused. ;-)

Probably more likely to be accused of being a 'negro' lover. What do you think? LOL

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

“I think the only reasonable path is to reject ALL such rationalizations/justifications, even if we can understand the explanations behind them. Without doing that, there is no pathway to a truly open dialogue about such matters.”

Accepting rationalization? O.K., one mo gain for JMK.

No one is accepting anything by UNDERSTANDING why people feel the way that they do.

I watched “American History X” a few years ago, while I didn’t agree with Ed Norton’s Neo Nazi character’s views I understood WHY he felt how he did and would use that as a basis for dialogue if in fact we were to talk.

The problem with you is you seem to live in an “in theory” world, and the world don’t work like that, people are human and flawed, we can’t expect them to be perfect BEFORE we start talking to them.

JMK said...

“You are having a “chicken and egg” argument here JMK, I am not.

“1. I am not “rationalizing” bigotry; I am looking at in it its CONTEXT it, meaning that, regardless of how “I” feel about it, looking at causes.” (DJBA)
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Actually, and ironically enough, what I’ve been doing is REJECTING the “chicken and the egg” argument that you’ve offered, as being immaterial.

EVERY bigot rationalizes/justifies his/her own bigotry.

White anti-black bigots like Tom Metzger and Michael Levin rationalize their bigotry based on numerous perceived injustices, including a disproportionate violent crime rate between blacks and whites.

While that explanation does NOT rationalize/justify their actions, their views, like all others, require no need of rationalization,” thanks to the First Amendment. People have a First Amendment Right to hold ANY views, no matter how offensive others may find them. What they DON’T have a Right to, is acting upon them.

Likewise, I don’t accept the rationalizations/justifications of black bigots either.

As I said, EVERY bigot has their own rationalizations, each of them equally perverse and immaterial.

As for Jared Taylor, he like Claude Steele, Charles Murray, William Shockley and Arthur Jensen have been controversial figures.

All of those men have advanced controversial views regarding race. Among Jared Taylor’s controversial views is that “I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society.”

That may well be a “racial statement,” even “an offensive one” to many, many Americans, BUT, it is NOT, in and of itself a “racist” and certainly not a “white supremacist” statement, which is what you and UTS have claimed he is.

Murray, Jensen and others have all postulated about various racial differences. Anyone who understands statistical analysis knows that there are always differences when comparing groups against one another...ALWAYS. In fact, if you were to take two groups of 100 randomly chosen people and tested them, you’d expect to see a different average score for each group.
There’s nothing unscientific and least of all “offensive” about acknowledging group differences.

Group differences mean very little, in a society in which people are tested, compete and are judged on an individual basis.

On the subject of inter-marriage, Jared Taylor’s views are very similar to Jesse Jackson's (who opined that he wanted his grandchildren to look like him). Jared Taylor has said, "I want my grandchildren to look like my grandparents. I don't want them to look like Anwar Sadat or Fu Manchu or Whoopi Goldberg."

While I obviously disagree with BOTH Jesse Jackson and Jared Taylor, neither of those views are innately “offensive,” or “racist.”

AND once again I’m not suggesting, I’m INSISTING that no one has the right to find Jesse Jackson’s stance on inter-marriage any less offensive than Jared Taylor’s. That is, if ONE is an “offensive” and “racist” view, than BOTH are, end of story.

Ironically enough, there are a number of racial supremacist theorists in the U.S., among them the equally demented Michael Levin and Leonard Jeffries, both of the CUNY system.

AGAIN, both Jeffries and Levin have a 1st Amendment right to hold and air their views, they DO NOT have a RIGHT to act on their views and in violation of local, state or federal laws.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and sorry, I find Jared taylor a white supremacist (at least in relation to African Americans) and further the man is clearly an Asiaphile, but that's a whole nother issue.

Nobody is rationalizting anything, at least I am not, I am however actualizing the issue. I deal in reality no in "theoretical" ethics and morality.

At least we seem to agree that no one should judge anyone by their skin color.

JMK said...

"I watched “American History X” a few years ago, while I didn’t agree with Ed Norton’s Neo Nazi character’s views I understood WHY he felt how he did and would use that as a basis for dialogue if in fact we were to talk." (DJBA)
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You've moved/retreated from your initial stance, which was; "Black bigotry is NOT a RESPONSE to earlier whiote bigotry against blacks." (JMK) - "Hell if it ain't, you beat someone down for 400 years, don't be surprised if they hit back..." (DJBA)

I do appreciate your moving away from that stance.

In that earlier post, you clearly rationalized/justified black anti-white bigotry, but have now retreated to claiming to merely "understand where ALL bigotry comes from," while condoning none.

That was not apparent at all in your inital stance.

I understand where all bigotry comes from too, and no matter what the given rationalization is, the real reason comes down to ignorance.

But once again, the fact is that even "offensive" views are protected by the 1st Amendment, as I said, Leonard Jeffries and Michael Levin's views are as protected as Mother Theresa's or Gandhi's views would be. Moreover, the vile views of Jeffries and Levin should not be and CANNOT be legitimately lumped together with the likes of Jared Taylor, Claude Steele, Arthur Jensen, William Shockley or Charles Murray.

This entire exchange is eerily reminsicent of our earlier exchange (in this same comments section) over UTS' comment.

If you'll recall, you were wrong on that one too.

UTS said, “His tone always had to be soothing and genial.

"He could not be accusatory or demanding with whites regarding race.” (UTS)
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YOUR response was an amplification and agreement with that statement, one that implied that blacks SHOULD be "accusatory and demanding" with whites over race), “And this is true, any Black man that has worked in corporate America knows these rules...” (DJBA)

Look, you apparently see UTS as a kindrd spirit.

I see him as a harmless goofball.

I told him the truth about his online attitude no matching his real-life persona...and I'm right about that too. You don't survive long as a salesman with a "demanding and accusatory" demeanor.

Here's where we seem to agree, "All bigotries are rationalized/justified by the bigots who hold them, and it's good to undersand why some folks feel the way they do (seeing their frustrations, etc.), BUT none of those rationalizations can justify anyone acting on those kinds of dangerous petty bigotries."

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

You wrote: “You've moved/retreated from your initial stance, which was; "Black bigotry is NOT a RESPONSE to earlier whiote bigotry against blacks." (JMK) - "Hell if it ain't, you beat someone down for 400 years, don't be surprised if they hit back..." (DJBA). I do appreciate your moving away from that stance.

Nope, I still say it is a response, however; I don’t think that it is the RIGHT response to the stimuli of White supremacy and White privilege.

JMK Wrote: “In that earlier post, you clearly rationalized/justified black anti-white bigotry, but have now retreated to claiming to merely "understand where ALL bigotry comes from," while condoning none.”

Nope. My previous statement was not a rationalization it was an explanation of cause and affect. If you enslave people, beat them, falsely accuse them, rape them, treat them as if they are not human, do not be surprised if they want to kick your ass because of it. Now SHOULD you kick the ass of someone because they look like a person who did you wrong? OF COURSE NOT. Very simple to follow. I stand by that.

JMK Wrote: “I understand where all bigotry comes from too, and no matter what the given rationalization is, the real reason comes down to ignorance.”

Are you positing that IGNORANCE is a CAUSE for BIGOTRY?

JMK: “Look, you apparently see UTS as a kindrd spirit.”

We seem to have some similar views, I am much more hammer and sickle than he it appears.

JMK: “I told him the truth about his online attitude no matching his real-life persona...and I'm right about that too.”

I’m pretty much what you see is what you get, and I am a hellofalot more aristocratic in real life.

JMK wrote: “"All bigotries are rationalized/justified by the bigots who hold them, and it's good to undersand why some folks feel the way they do (seeing their frustrations, etc.), BUT none of those rationalizations can justify anyone acting on those kinds of dangerous petty bigotries."

Though we get there from different directions, yes, we do agree on that.

JMK said...

"You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine, and sorry, I find Jared taylor a white supremacist (at least in relation to African Americans) and further the man is clearly an Asiaphile, but that's a whole nother issue." (DJBA)
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I can see now that it's your constant, sloppy use of the wrong terms to state your case, that has resulted in so much conflict in this comments section.

You can call Jared Taylor a "racialist" or even a "racist", as he clearly sees distinct differences between the various races.

Actually, there ARE a myriad of well-documented differences between ALL ethnic groups and races across the broad spectrum of aptitudes and abilities, but the fact is, group differences mean little to nothing, when comparing individuals.

So, while Jared Taylor may well be a "racialist" or "racist", he is NOT a "white supremacist," NOT that there's any law against being a bigot, a black or white supremacist, a flat-earther or anything else. People are free to hold and espouse whatever views they choose to.

One of Taylor's view is that Asians are superior to whites and blacks in just about any appreciable measure. While I and apparently you, among others, find that offensive, I'm betting a LOT of Asians see that as "simple common sense."

Moreover, just because a lot of people (even if it's the majority of people) find something "offensive", that doesn't make it so and its never grounds for trying to silence someone. Just because we don't like someone's views doesn't make those views "offensive" nor even "wrong."

Should Taylor be free to espouse his views and conduct research designed to bolster those views?

Well, in a free country, the answer is unquestionably YES!

Jared Taylor is not a politician, activist or anything other than a writer and educator (he taught Japanese at Yale).

He is in a very different category than real racial supremacists (folks like Drs. Jeffries and Levin) and politically active people like Tom Metzger, Quannel-X, the NOI, the Aryan Nation, the Black Israelites, etc.

The latter ALL are "racial supremacists", while Taylor obviously is not.

And while the likes of Metzger, Quannel-X and others are indeed more dangerous their views are also are protected by the 1st Amendment!

ALL of their views.

Now, when one of those people's words spark violence, their group CAN be civilly sued and juries have been returning judgments in such cases.

In my view, when a deranged Sharpton acolyte set fire to Freddy's Fashion Mart in Harlem, NY, Sharpton's Action Network should've been held civilly liable for the wrongful deaths in that case and the damages done by his follower. In today's climate that would almost certainly be the case.

Notice how wistfully UTS defended Sharpton's spewing of hatred, resulting in five minority youths being killed - "Al Ashrpton was nowhere around when that fire was started."

Much as I have reservations about holding a speaker responsible for the actions of another (in fact, I have severe reservations) the Freddy's fire was one of the clearest cases of such an "incitement" in recent memory.

Your friend UTS's online persona has no trouble at all lauding such actions.

"At least we seem to agree that no one should judge anyone by their skin color." (DJBA)
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Absolutely! No one should be judged on anything other than their abilities and attributes (education, specializations, etc.), but I also think we really also agree that; "All bigotries are rationalized/justified by the bigots who hold them, and while it's good to undersand why some folks feel the way they do (seeing their frustrations, etc.), none of those rationalizations can justify anyone acting on those kinds of dangerous petty bigotries in violation of any laws, or even common decency."

uptownsteve said...

JMK

"Lots of groups were discriminated against prior to 1964.'

Yeah racist, but what other ones were slaves in America and which other group had a government sanctioned system in place designed specifically to KEEP them oppressed?

"In my view, when a deranged Sharpton acolyte set fire to Freddy's Fashion Mart in Harlem, NY, Sharpton's Action Network should've been held civilly liable for the wrongful deaths in that case and the damages done by his follower. In today's climate that would almost certainly be the case."

Okay then.

Do you also believe that conservative talk show hosts should be held responsible for the bombings of the federal building in Oklahoma City and the 96 Atlanta Olympics?

If not, why not?

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

You are far too solicitous of this beer gut racist.

Every post from JMK is an apology or explanation of white racism followed by a foamy mouthed attack on black activists or liberals.

Why do you bother?

The man hates black folks and that's obvious.

Oh, he'll tell you how much respect he has for CBW and Constructive Feedback and that's just the point.

The only black people he can stomach are the ones who grin in his face and tell him what he wants to hear.

uptownsteve said...

"If "whites owe blacks for slavery and other past abuses," then blacks owe whites (specific whites) a great debt - more Irish fought in the Civil War than there were slave owners (5% of the Southerners)."

This garbage is straight out of the American Renaissance handbook..

And I'm sure this racist pantload is aware that the Civil War was not fought to free slaves but because the Union was attacked by Confederate terrorists who seceded from and declared war on their own country.

uptownsteve said...

"I told him the truth about his online attitude no matching his real-life persona...and I'm right about that too. You don't survive long as a salesman with a "demanding and accusatory" demeanor."

If I ever encounter a bigot like you in real life, what I've given you on this board would seem like a day in the park.

uptownsteve said...

"the disproportionate violent crime rates,” and he’s right about the crime rates and yes, probably right about his claim that 90% or more of black vs white crime being racially motivated."

And your proof of this is what racist?

Don't look now DJBA but he's pulling the hood off now and showing his real face.

JMK said...

"Lots of groups were discriminated against prior to 1964." (JMK)
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"Yeah racist, but what other ones were slaves in America and which other group had a government sanctioned system in place designed specifically to KEEP them oppressed?" (UTS)


Read some history UTS, there were white slaves and there were free blacks way before the Civil War.

Jim Crow laws were state and local laws, instituted by many Southern states.

They were very definitely examples of bad law, but they were not backed by the federal government, nor did they extend to many states outside the South.

Ironically enough, one of America's most Liberal Democratic Presidents of the past century and one of the first internationalists, Woodrow Wilson, was also an ardent segregationist. In fact, Woodrow Wilson, introduced segregation in some Federal offices, despite much protest. "He also appointed Southern politicians who were segregationists, because of his firm belief that racial segregation was in the best interest of Black Americans and White Americans alike."
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"In my view...Sharpton's Action Network should've been held civilly liable for the wrongful deaths in that case and the damages done by his follower. In today's climate that would almost certainly be the case."" (JMK)


"Okay then.

"Do you also believe that conservative talk show hosts should be held responsible for the bombings of the federal building in Oklahoma City and the 96 Atlanta Olympics?

"If not, why not?" (UTS)
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As I noted, "much as I have severe reservations about holding a speaker responsible for the actions of another" I DO support prosecution in those cases where incitement can be proven.

Al Sharpton and fellow travellers like Tom Metzger and the late Khalid Mohammed (BOTH of the latter HAVE been proecuted for "incitement") do cross that line, mainstream media hosts, like Limbaugh, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley and O'Reilly do not.
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"the Civil War was not fought to free slaves but because the Union was attacked by Confederate terrorists who seceded from and declared war on their own country." (UTS)

The Civil War was fought for a myriad of reasons, preserving the Union the primary focus, eradicating slavery was another.

In FACT, the primary reason the South seceded, was over the issue of slavery.

Please, if you foolishly believe that past injustices and debts carry forward (Common Law says they DO NOT), then you can't deny your own debt on the grounds that "well, there were other reasons for that sacrifice."

That's a pathetic argument even for you and you seem to specialize in those.
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"If I ever encounter a bigot like you in real life, what I've given you on this board would seem like a day in the park." (UTS)

You mean you'll constantly embarass yourself and look foolish?

From our first exchange over your not understanding the difference between the National Debt and a Budget Deficit, to your not knowing the realities of rural poverty in the U.S., to just about every other exchange we've had, you've been....well, to be honest about it, schooled.

In your every post you are overly emotional and prone to insult because you cannot make a decent argument in favor of what you claim to believe.

If you'll notice, I don't have to rely on insults, because I can make sound arguments.

The fact that I have no respect for you as a poster or as a person (in my view, your every word proves that you are a race-obsessed bigot) seems to anger you.

All I can say to that is get over it.

Tha fact is, you're having a hard time backing up your own bigotry. Maybe your trying too hard.

Bigotry like yours isn't worth backing up.

JMK said...

"And your proof of this is what racist?" (UTS)
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The proof of those disporportionate violent crime rates can be found in the FBI's Uniform Crime Stats.

There's NOTHING at all "bigoted" about such facts. Facts are what they are and numbers are NEVER "racially/ethnically motivated".

See what I mean about your inability to defned your own innate racial bigotries???

uptownsteve said...

"there were white slaves"

How many? 3

Let's see some documentation.

Unless you pulled this out of your ass like you do most of arguments.

"They were very definitely examples of bad law, but they were not backed by the federal government, nor did they extend to many states outside the South."

Prior to 1964 it was perfectly legal in all parts of the United States to discriminate against blacks in employment, housing, and education.

Not even you are stupid enough to suggest that blacks could buy homes wherever their money could take them during the 60s.

Heck there are many places that won't rent or sell to blacks TODAY.

"The Civil War was fought for a myriad of reasons, preserving the Union the primary focus, eradicating slavery was another."

BULL$HIT

Even Lincoln said that if he could preserve without freeing slaves he would.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

"Al Sharpton and fellow travellers like Tom Metzger and the late Khalid Mohammed (BOTH of the latter HAVE been proecuted for "incitement") do cross that line, mainstream media hosts, like Limbaugh, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley and O'Reilly do not."

Now Smiley is a hatemonger?????

You really are a clown, aren't you?

Produce a racist by Tavis Smiley.

Take all the time you like.

On the other hand thanks for further proving my point that while Khalid Mohammad and Al Sharpton could never have corporate sponsored media perches, outright racists like O'Reilly, Hannity, Buchanan and Limbaugh DO.

Double Standard,

"The fact that I have no respect for you as a poster or as a person."

The feeling is definitely mutual racist.

Now you continue your pathetic claims of victory and I'll just keep putting my foot up your redneck ass for all to see.

uptownsteve said...

"The proof of those disporportionate violent crime rates can be found in the FBI's Uniform Crime Stats."

But if you go back and read slowly my question was a response to your claim that 90% of black on white violence was racially motivated.

Any proof of this racist?

Do you believe that race is a causative factor in violent crime?

Do you believe an educated middle class black man is more likely to commit a violent crime than his white counterpart?

Are you unaware of the fact that when white ethnics were the inner poor a century ago, they were the disproporationate committers of violent crime?

uptownsteve said...

I meant to say "Produce a racist statement by Tavis Smiley."

You have the floor racist.

uptownsteve said...

"do cross that line, mainstream media hosts, like Limbaugh, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley and O'Reilly do not."

Shall I present a list of hateful remarks from Limbaugh Hannity and O'Reilly which rival anything Louis Farrakhan ever uttered?

http://newsone.blackplanet.com/elections/top-10-racist-limbaugh-quotes/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080321233842AARaIIv

http://digg.com/odd_stuff/MP3_Bill_O_Reilly_Racist_Comments_transcript_in_first_comment

JMK said...

"Al Sharpton and fellow travellers like Tom Metzger and the late Khalid Mohammed (BOTH of the latter HAVE been proecuted for "incitement") do cross that line, mainstream media hosts, like Limbaugh, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley and O'Reilly do not." (UTS)
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"Now Smiley is a hatemonger?????

"You really are a clown, aren't you?

"Produce a racist by Tavis Smiley.

"Take all the time you like. (UTS)
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Again, you don't understand what's being said.

DEBTS and DEFICITS again!

While Al Sharpton, Tom Metzger, and the late Khalid Mohammed were/are all racists/bigots, Sean Hannity, D. L. Hughley, Rush Limbaugh, Tavis Smiley and Bill O'Reilly are NOT.

While D. L. Hughley is a little more flippant than either Smiley, Hannity, O"reilly, etc. BUT NONE of those have ever crossed the line to incitement the way Sharpton, Metzger and Mohammad all have, or had (in the case of Mohammad).

Get it?!

Sharpton-Metzger-Mohammad are all comparable, so are Hannity-Hughley-Limbaugh-Smiley-O'Reilly.

I don't have to "claim victory" your posts make your ignorance all too clear.

You are the mirror reflection of the slack-jawed, mouth-breathing redneck bigot.
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"there were white slaves"

"How many? 3

"Let's see some documentation." (UTS)
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It would probably pay to read a little yourself before making such collosally ignorant statements...but I understand, that's not your way.

I accept your limitations, that's why I'm so patient with you.

At any rate, there is ample documentation.

Some of it is highlighted in this piece by historian Michael A Hoffman;


"The arrogant disregard for the holocaust visited upon the poor and working class Whites of Britain by the aristocracy continues in our time because the history of that epoch has been almost completely extirpated from our collective memory.

"When White servitude is acknowledged as having existed in America, it is almost always termed as temporary "indentured servitude" or part of the convict trade, which, after the Revolution of 1776, centered on Australia instead of America. The "convicts" transported to America under the 1723 Waltham Act, perhaps numbered 100,000.

"The indentured servants who served a tidy little period of 4 to 7 years polishing the master's silver and china and then taking their place in colonial high society, were a minuscule fraction of the great unsung hundreds of thousands of White slaves who were worked to death in this country from the early l7th century onward.

"Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too.

"Whites were auctioned on the block with children sold and separated from their parents and wives sold and separated from their husbands. Free Black property owners strutted the streets of northern and southern American cities while White slaves were worked to death in the sugar mills of Barbados and Jamaica and the plantations of Virginia.

"The Establishment has created the misnomer of "indentured servitude" to explain away and minimize the fact of White slavery. But bound Whites in early America called themselves slaves. Nine-tenths of the White slavery in America was conducted without indentures of any kind but according to the so-called "custom of the country," as it was known, which was lifetime slavery administered by the White slave merchants themselves.

"In George Sandys laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved "forever." The service of Whites bound to Berkeley's Hundred was deemed "perpetual." These accounts have been policed out of the much touted "standard reference works" such as Abbott Emerson Smith's laughable whitewash, Colonists in Bondage.

"I challenge any researcher to study 17th century colonial America, sifting the documents, the jargon and the statutes on both sides of the Atlantic and one will discover that White slavery was a far more extensive operation than Black enslavement. It is when we come to the 18th century that one begins to encounter more "servitude" on the basis of a contract of indenture. But even in that period there was kidnapping of Anglo-Saxons into slavery as well as convict slavery.

"In 1855, Frederic Law Olmsted, the landscape architect who designed New York's Central Park, was in Alabama on a pleasure trip and saw bales of cotton being thrown from a considerable height into a cargo ship's hold. The men tossing the bales somewhat recklessly into the hold were Negroes, the men in the hold were Irish.

"Olmsted inquired about this to a shipworker. "Oh," said the worker, "the niggers are worth too much to be risked here; if the Paddies are knocked overboard or get their backs broke, nobody loses anything."

"Before British slavers traveled to Africa's western coast to buy Black slaves from African chieftains, they sold their own White working class kindred ("the surplus poor" as they were known) from the streets and towns of England, into slavery. Tens of thousands of these White slaves were kidnapped children. In fact the very origin of the word kidnapped is kid-nabbed, the stealing of White children for enslavement.

"Before British slavers traveled to Africa's western coast to buy Black slaves from African chieftains, they sold their own White working class kindred ("the surplus poor" as they were known) from the streets and towns of England, into slavery. Tens of thousands of these White slaves were kidnapped children. In fact the very origin of the word kidnapped is kid-nabbed, the stealing of White children for enslavement."

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

You keep upping the ante here and each time you reveal how deep-seated your ignorance really is. In fact, you seem proud of your ignorance!

JMK said...

Virtually ALL inter-racial crime is racially motivated.

That is largely accepted by almost all social scientists.

People generally strike out against other members of their own group UNLESS they are targeting someone of a different race and that reason is usually (virtually always) based on racial motives.

Limbaugh, Hughley, Smiley, Hannity, O'Reilly and other media hosts OFTEN say things that some people take offense to.

I take offense to ANYTHING that would suggest a "pro-black" agenda, just as I would to one that woul suggest a pro-white one.

The current status quo, although not "race neutral", due to some lingering race-based preferences of AA, is not, nor was not constructed on any kind of racial agenda.

So when racialist groups like Black Planet take offense to some things Limbaugh, Hannity and others may say, that must be discounted just as surely as David Dukes taking offense to anything that Hughley or Smiley says must also be discounted.

NONE of those mainstream talk hosts are either bigots or "hate inciters. NONE.
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"I meant to say "Produce a racist statement by Tavis Smiley." (UTS)
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Wait! YOU'RE the one who inferred that Tavis Smiley is "a racist"!

I SAID: "Al Sharpton and fellow travellers like Tom Metzger and the late Khalid Mohammed (BOTH of the latter HAVE been proecuted for "incitement") do cross that line, mainstream media hosts, like Limbaugh, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley and O'Reilly do not." (JMK)

YOU then said, "Now Smiley is a hatemonger?????"

Clearly, I made no such charge; "While Al Sharpton, Tom Metzger, and the late Khalid Mohammed were/are all racists/bigots, Sean Hannity, D. L. Hughley, Rush Limbaugh, Tavis Smiley and Bill O'Reilly are NOT,"....YOU did.

I correctly compared Smiley to Hannity, Limbaugh, Hughley and O'Reilly, NONE of whom are "hatemongers."

Please, walk away now, you're going to hurt yourself

uptownsteve said...

"Sharpton-Metzger-Mohammad are all comparable, so are Hannity-Hughley-Limbaugh-Smiley-O'Reilly."

In what way?

I produced a list of racist remarks by Hannity Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

Where's your list on Smiley?

I submit you can compare Sharpton to Hannity, Limbaugh, et al but Sharpton doesn't have a corporate sponsored radio show, does he racist?

And Metzger has consistently called for a race war and race violence.

You really are a dumb racist ass aren't you?

An indentured servant is a form of debt bondage worker. The laborer is under contract of an employer for usually three to seven years, in exchange for their transportation, food, drink, clothing, lodging and other necessities. Unlike a slave, an indentured servant is required to work only for a limited term specified in a signed contract.


You're not trying to compare the indentured servitude of the Irish to the chattel slavery of blacks where families were separated, histories were stolen, people were auctioned, branded and breeded like cattle, are you?

Tell me you're not THAT dumb.

uptownsteve said...

"Virtually ALL inter-racial crime is racially motivated."

That's bull$hit.

Muggings are motivated by greed, viciousness and convenience.

Once again you are making excuses for white racism and trying to exaggerate the rhetoric of blacks who make you made.

You don't fool anybody.

And I'm not "walking away" racist.

I'm gonna stay right in your ass and expose you for the vile, bigoted piece of garbage that you are.

So get ready.

JudyBright said...

2 Timothy 2:23-24 says: Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

I don't know what your religious beliefs are guys, I just don't understand the point of you fighting all the time. What are you trying to accomplish, and what makes you think you will succeed in this manner?

uptownsteve said...

JudyBright

Let me explain it to you.

I don't like lying racists and will do everything to expose and humiliate them.

JudyBright said...

will do everything to expose and humiliate them.

Why? What will this accomplish? I guess I sound like a 3 year old. :-)

uptownsteve said...

Because he's a racist Judy.

He slanders, stereotypes and vilifies my people, my family and my blood and I don't like that.

Are you black?

If you are, why aren't you offended by JMK?

Did you see how he tried to equate indentured servitude to black chattel slavery as a cheap attempt to minimize the racial horror blacks experienced for the first 200 years we were in America?

Did you see how he made excuses for vile white supremacists like Jared Taylor and Michael Levin???

Did you read his rants about blacks resenting success, hating lighter skinned people, won't speak proper English and pile of other baseless racist nonsense???

uptownsteve said...

Oh BTW, Judy

This "Michael Hoffman" whom JMK describes as a historian and who he referenced for information about "white slavery" is actually a white supremacist, conspiracy realists and holocaust denier and operates out of the Aryan nation compound in Coeur de lene, ID.

This boy just keeps on exposing himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Hoffman_II

JMK said...

"Muggings are motivated by greed, viciousness and convenience." (UTS)
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Over 90% of ALL violent crime are INTRA-racial (both vitim and predator share the same ethnic group)....in virtually all those cases where they differ, the predator/assailant sought out victims of a different and specific race.

It's OK, that you probably don't know that much about crime and criminal behavior, but that's an accepted fact.

JMK said...

"Did you see how he tried to equate indentured servitude to black chattel slavery as a cheap attempt to minimize the racial horror blacks experienced for the first 200 years we were in America?

"Did you see how he made excuses for vile white supremacists like Jared Taylor and Michael Levin???" (UTS)
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Your first statement is a lie, "Nine-tenths of the White slavery in America was conducted without indentures of any kind but according to the so-called "custom of the country," as it was known, which was lifetime slavery administered by the White slave merchants themselves.

"In George Sandys laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved "forever." The service of Whites bound to Berkeley's Hundred was deemed "perpetual."

Your second is foolish, as I condemned BOTH Michael Levin's and Leonard Jeffries supremacist views.

Jared Taylor's barring David Duke and other supremacists to his forums and his statements about Asians having, on average, higher IQs than both blacks and whites, proves that while his views may be controversial, they are not "white supremacist."
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"I produced a list of racist remarks by Hannity Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

"Where's your list on Smiley?" (UTS)

YOU'RE the one who siggested that Tavis Smiley is a "hatemonger" and a "racist."

I didn't.

I believe that Smiley, Hannity, Limbaugh, Hughley and O'Reilly are ALL mainstream media figures who NEVER resort to hate or incitement.

There's no indication that O'Reilly, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley or Limbaugh are at all bigoted.

The assertion by some Left-leaning dopes otherwise has to be discounted.

It's EVERY issue with you!

Debt/Deficit, Rurual vs Urban poverty, now slavery....can you try being right about anything?

It would really help.

You say "Get ready," but for WHAT?

More wrong-headed thinking? More incredulous statements?

Please, save yourself the trouble.

uptownsteve said...

"Over 90% of ALL violent crime are INTRA-racial (both vitim and predator share the same ethnic group)....in virtually all those cases where they differ, the predator/assailant sought out victims of a different and specific race."

Certainly that's the case for whites who vicitmize blacks..

BTW racist any explanation why this didn't make national headlines?

http://www.truthout.org/033109K

But in the case of street criminals who happen to be black and victims who happen to be white, it is usually a question of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

uptownsteve said...

"Your second is foolish, as I condemned BOTH Michael Levin's and Leonard Jeffries supremacist views."

Jeffries' "Ice People/Sun People" drivel is no comparison to Levin's hate.

Levin actually argues that barring black men from stores and business establishments is acceptable!!!!!!

Oh BTW, you REFERENCED Michael Hoffman's bull$hit and I proved he was a racist kook.

"There's no indication that O'Reilly, Hughley, Hannity, Smiley or Limbaugh are at all bigoted."

Only I produced examples of Hannity, O'Reilly's and Limbaugh's race hate.

"YOU'RE the one who siggested that Tavis Smiley is a "hatemonger" and a "racist."

You're such a pathetic liar and a fraud.

Keep comin' racist.

I'l just keep smacking you down.

uptownsteve said...

BTW coward,

I noticed that you convienently avoided my questions which I will post again.

Do you believe that race is a causative factor in violent crime?

Do you believe an educated middle class black man is more likely to commit a violent crime than his white counterpart?

Are you unaware of the fact that when white ethnics were the inner poor a century ago, they were the disproporationate committers of violent crime?

JMK said...

"Certainly that's the case for whites who vicitmize blacks..." (UTS)
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Actually merely holding THAT view makes you a stone-cold racial bigot...and what's more, your a comfortable, suburbanite bigot.

In other words, you have absolutely no personal justification for your own bigotries, NOT that there ever is any such justification!

Pathetic.

Michael Levin and Leonard Jeffries are EXACTLY the same.

I've had exchangesd with both of those guys, and I've schooled them even worse than I've schooled you.

They are BOTH "racial supremacists."

The fact that you don't have a problem with Leonard Jeffries' views, because those views aren't offensive to you personally, merely makes you a simpleton, as well as a bigot.

BOTH those guys are racial supremacists and BOTH (much like yourself) can't back up their own bigotry.
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"BTW racist any explanation why this didn't make national headlines?"

http://www.truthout.org/033109K
(UTS)
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I don't know, maybe for the SAME reason this far more heinous crime wasn't covered?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
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"Do you believe that race is a causative factor in violent crime?" (UTS)

As I said, I believe race is the primary motivating factor in ALL inter-racial crimes and the prevailing data on that appears to be supported my view on that.
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In your own case, you claim to have been fired once for "confronting a white man who you claim harassed you."

While I'm skeptical of your side of the story, given your penchant for exaggeration and untruths, even accepting your tale, if that had happened where I work, I'd have probably had you locked up.

No one has a right to "confront" (verablly or physically) another employee.

If two co-workers have a problem, they bring it to their supervisor.

That's even true in a firehouse setting, which is far more "rough and tumble," so it is absolutely inviolate in an office setting.

If one didn't "like the other's views" - all employees can and should be barred from talking about politics, religion or race on the worksite.

Such disagreements DO NOT and CANNOT be allowed to make it impossible for workers to work together.

With me, you would work together without incident and you would not make getting the job we have to do, harder to get done....I could guarantee that.

But given your view that you "have a right to be demanding and accusatory with others over race" makes me believe you have a penchant for that kind of bigoted activity. And YES, "acting demanding &/or accusatory toward your co-workers for ANY reason is both bigoted and threatening behavior, and any kind of "threatening behavior" is grounds for suspension, termination or, in some instances, even criminal charges.

I certainly hope you learned from that unfortunate incident.

JMK said...

"I don't know what your religious beliefs are guys, I just don't understand the point of you fighting all the time." (Judy Bright)
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The fighting is all on one side Judy.

All I've done here is to challenge some very odious views put forth by one particular poster (UTS), who has been vile toward CF, CB and other posters, every time he's responded to them.

I don't mind UTS' insults. I really don't think he can do any better.

If you note, I haven't ONCE responded with an insult....I don't have to.

Honestly, I'm trying to help a misguided person understand some basic facts.

So, there's no "fight" from my end, merely my correcting some massive errors and mis-information from UTS.

I get the impression that the comfortable, suburbanite UTS, feels empowered by the anonymity online and feels free to project this in-your-face persona, that his real life doesn't allow.

THAT'S not a problem with me.

I've seen that act before.

What IS a very big problem is his view that "all inter-racial bwhite-on-black crime is racially motivated, but most black-on-white crime isn't" - the facts and circumstances don't back that up AND most people in law enforcement and criminal justice (prison psychologists, etc) don't support the bigoted view that UTS espouses.

uptownsteve said...

"They are BOTH "racial supremacists."

Show me where Jeffries expressed abridging the civil liberties of anyone pertaining to race.

I read a lot about his background.

The man was a member of a Jewish fraternity in college.

Being the racist fraud that you are, even when you're forced to acknowledge a white supremacist you reflexively have to create some black equivalent.

As far as the Christian/Channon murder rape were concerned the Tennessee media covered it, it was all over the rightwing internet and the criminals who committed the crimes are in jail doing big time.

Not so for the white murderers of young Tahliek Taliaferro who only got 11 years for "involuntary manslaughter."

You just don't get it do you racist?

uptownsteve said...

JMK


"All I've done here is to challenge some very odious views put forth by one particular poster (UTS), who has been vile toward CF, CB and other posters, every time he's responded to them."

Every post from you is a pile of lies, distortions, misdirection, red herrings and false premises.

I wanna hear Judy or anyone else on this board defend your filth with a straight face.

You can try to sweet talk Judy and flail for help all you like but I'm going to stay on your racist ass relentlessly.

uptownsteve said...

"What IS a very big problem is his view that "all inter-racial bwhite-on-black crime is racially motivated, but most black-on-white crime isn't"

Pathetic liar.

That's not what I said.

I said most white on black violence is racially motivated whereas with a disproportionate number of black street criminals much black on white violence is about robbery.

uptownsteve said...

"I get the impression that the comfortable, suburbanite UTS, feels empowered by the anonymity online and feels free to project this in-your-face persona, that his real life doesn't allow."

Here's my e-mail address.

vaughnfair@aol.com

Anytime you'd like to meet face to face let me know.

I'm in NYC every month.

I bet I won't hear jack from your cowardly a$$.

DJ Black Adam said...

I have decided to become a Republican and a Muslim, further, I am quiting the Marine Corps league and the Royal African Society and joining Black Conservatives in the denoucing of Barack Obama, who I now know is a Bolshevik.

That is all for this first day of April 2009.

JMK said...

"Show me where Jeffries expressed abridging the civil liberties of anyone pertaining to race." (UTS)
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AGAIN, there's no black bigotry vile enough for you not to laud.

The ADL has rightly condemned Leonard Jeffries as "a vile racist."

They also noted, "On September, 19, 1991, after more than a month of widespread media coverage of Jeffries' bigotry, the City University Faculty Senate voted to condemn the remarks. On October 27, City College's Board of Trustees voted 10-4 to give Jeffries a one-year extension as chairman of the Black Studies Department rather than the standard three years. On March 23, 1992, CUNY's Board of Trustees voted to remove Jeffries as head of the department, replacing him with Dr. Edmund W. Gordon, formerly chairman of the African-American Studies Department at Yale University."

http://www.adl.org/Sih/SIH-black_student_groups.asp

Here's just one major difference between our views, while I correctly asserted that "...while Jared Taylor may well be a "racialist" or "racist", he is NOT a "white supremacist," as “white supremacists” DON’T espouse views like, “I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society," thus his own words and actions bear that out, while YOU laud and defend a man who is an admitted "racist" and an avowed "black supremacist."

But that's who YOU are, which is exactly what I've said you are.

Hell, even CARD (Citizens Against Racism and Discrimination) has condemned him; "Jeffries has learned nothing since he was stripped of his departmental chair for his remarks. He continues to teach to this day, unbowed.

"In 1994, he compared Jews to “skunks - who stink up the place.”

"So much for diversity.

"Jeffries suggested yesterday that white people conspired to ruin blacks’ health with inferior food - a ploy to keep them going to doctors.

“My basic rule of thumb is to stay away from things white,” Jeffries told the mostly African-American HPD staffers. “Take the whiteness out of your minds, or at least neutralize it with blackness.”

“Now corporate America wants you to die.”

"It was billed as a “unity” event, one that every agency in the city puts on and is organized by the workers themselves. But the HPD employees who crammed into an eighth-floor conference room - including some high-level administrators - instead got a venomous lesson in intolerance and division."

http://card.wordpress.com/2006/07/20/anti-white-hate-speech-from-racist-prof-at-unity-in-diversity-event/
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As I said, Levin and Jeffries are EXACTLY the SAME and equally odious.
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"What IS a very big problem is his view that "all inter-racial white-on-black crime is racially motivated, but most black-on-white crime isn't" (JMK)
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"Pathetic liar.

"That's not what I said.
I said most white on black violence is racially motivated whereas with a disproportionate number of black street criminals much black on white violence is about robbery."
(UTS)
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Yup, that's EXACTLY what I claimed you said.

The FACT is that virtually ALL inter-racial crime is racially motivated....only a bigot wouldn't acknowledge that.
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Here's my e-mail address...

"...Anytime you'd like to meet face to face let me know.

"I'm in NYC every month.

"I bet I won't hear jack from your cowardly a$$. (UTS)
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Oh NO!


Not the rage of the middle-aged office worker again!

Look, my email address is in my profile (as if you didn't know), but I've already told you what you are and that you wouldn't get much satisfaction from such a meeting.

That's a fact.

As you can see, I'm a really nice guy. I don't threaten or insult others...no matter what the provocation. I've even spent a lot of time here trying to get you to see the light that "ALL bigotry is equally wrong."

It's not my fault that you aren't capable of understanding and accepting that.

These veiled threats from you are just foolish. You're a middle-aged, suburbanite, office worker and full-time bigot. You're not about to come and "confront" the likes of me any time soon.

Primarily, it would be a waste of time....for you. I've corrected your every mis-statement right here, so I have no need nor desire to "yell" at you. I don't yell period.

I don't even yell in fires!

And to be honest, if a middle-aged, suburbanite office worker were to "yell" at me, I'd just have to laugh.

Seriously, don't make any more a fool of yourself than you already have.

JudyBright said...

@DJBA HAHAHAHAHA ROTFL!!!!!!!!!

@JMK & UTS
I'm not defending either one of you. Too much testosterone in the room for me.

@UTS You asked if I'm black. Just search back a little in this thread. I left a clue nobody noticed. ;-)

JMK said...

@JMK & UTS
I'm not defending either one of you. Too much testosterone in the room for me.
(Judy Bright)
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Never said you defended anyone...what I rightly said was, "The fighting is all on one side Judy.
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@UTS You asked if I'm black. Just search back a little in this thread. I left a clue nobody noticed. ;-) (Judy Bright)
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I noticed....I just felt there was need for response.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"I have decided to become a Republican and a Muslim, further, I am quiting the Marine Corps league and the Royal African Society and joining Black Conservatives in the denoucing of Barack Obama, who I now know is a Bolshevik.

That is all for this first day of April 2009" (DJBA)

Today I am become a liberal democrat, a buddist, I'm joining the marine corp. and divorcing my husband. Oh yes, and the piece d' resistance' I take back everything I've said about Barack Obama. He is a citizen, he isn't a socialist and he doesn't have a radical leftist agenda. He is going to be the best president ever!!!!!


Yeah, right. April Fool...

JudyBright said...

Hi JMK.

I was responding to this by our friend UTS :I wanna hear Judy or anyone else on this board defend your filth with a straight face.

You can try to sweet talk Judy and flail for help all you like but I'm going to stay on your racist ass relentlessly.


So I was like, "I'm not defending anyone." And then you guys kept fighting.

Carry on.

uptownsteve said...

"I'm not defending either one of you"

But you won't condemn his racism either and I find that sad.

Anyhow, I'm through with the beer belly racist for now.

He's a liar and a charlatan and too much time spent responding to his filth is self-demeaning.

JMK said...

"Hi JMK.

"I was responding to this by our friend UTS :I wanna hear Judy or anyone else on this board defend your filth with a straight face." (Judy Bright)
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My error.

I'd overlooked that....makes a lot of sense in context.

Thanks.

JMK said...

TYPO...SHOULD READ: "noticed....I just felt there was NO need for response.