Tuesday, June 2, 2009

Andrew Thomas Asks: Do Liberals Crave A Master?

Umm, yes. But here is what Andrew Thomas had to say over at American Thinker this morning (You know the drill my comments in red):

Everybody's looking for something...
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused
Sweet dreams are made of these
Who am I to disagree?
- Eurythmics


Contemporary liberals, having abandoned the belief in God-given inalienable rights, masochistically crave a worldly master. This master is a sadistic god-substitute who will provide the stern discipline needed to force economic equality and "fairness" by requiring painful sacrifices and bestowing government-created rights onto obedient and acquiescent groups of left-leaning masochists. (Flashback--yesterday's press-conference (although I'm not sure you could call it that since Pres. Obama didn't field any questions) where he tells us we will be required to "sacrifice".)

Of course, I am not referring to the sexual variety of masochism, but rather the recognized psychosis of moral masochism. Large segments of the population, and even entire nations can suffer from this illness as described in Daniel Rancour-Laferriere's book, "The Slave Soul of Russia: Moral Masochism and the Cult of Suffering". (Yes, black folks have begun to display framed pictures of the Obama's on the wall of their foyers. Just like the old folks used to display pictures of MLK, JFK and Jesus)

First, some re-definitions: In the same derogatory fashion liberals refer to contemporary Conservatives as "neocons", I will label this group as "neolibs" going forward. I feel this is appropriate, as the Liberal movement has taken a decidedly leftward leap and become more radicalized in their outward behavior in the last few years, and is therefore a new phenomenon.

In most conservative writing (Thomas Sowell, Ayn Rand, and more recently Mark Levin) the common theme is the sanctity of individual freedom and liberty. The conservative is an individualist and an independent thinker, as opposed to those who primarily identify themselves as members of a group. The term "conservative" is a misnomer for this philosophy, as it connotes a preservation of the status quo, or even a "regressive" yin to the "Progressive" yang. This is why I believe a more appropriate label for conservative philosophy is "individualist", and I will refer to it in this manner for the remainder of this article. (Somehow being an individualist and looking out for the concerns of yourself and your family has fallen out of vogue. It's more noble somehow to gleefully accept the Federal Government's extractions of your money in order to care for the needs of the collective.)

Next, a pop-psychology primer: individualists gravitate toward existential thinking, or a view of the world where individuals have complete freedom of choice and take full responsibility for the results of those choices. This mandates that choices must be made with a logical evaluation to determine the potential consequences. The impartial evaluation of phenomena to determine the truth is an offshoot of existentialism known as phenomenology. The phenomenologist is rational and emotionally detached from the subject of analysis, eliminating judgment and perception. Once the perceptions of reality are stripped away as much as possible, the phenomenologist then attempts to perform an insightful analysis of the object to determine what is real or "true". I believe that many individualists tend to be effective phenomenologists due to their ability to separate themselves from group-think and emotional judgment. Therefore, let's use the phenomenological process to analyze the "Neolib as masochist" theory. (Fancy that, a new word to describe conservative thought -- phenomenology. Henceforth I shall refer to myself as an phenomenologist.)

In our first analysis, we will impartially examine Neolib behavior. Objectively listen to Janeane Garofalo in the Youtube video linked to her name. In listening to neolibs such as Janeane speak, it is evident that they appear to be driven predominantly by emotion rather than logic. Just reviewing an alphabetical list of emotions, as extracted from a list in Wikipedia, lends itself to describing neolib behavior:

Anger,
Angst,
Anxiety,
Compassion,
Contempt,
Despair,
Disgust,
Empathy,
Envy,
Guilt,
Hatred,
Hope,
Hostility,
Hysteria,
Rage,
Shame,
Suffering,
Worry.

(Wow, I'm wondering if Mr. Thomas has been reading my blog comments and using UptownSteve, etal as the prototype for the Neolib)

Anyone who views the world through these emotions would naturally feel threatened when interpreting individualists' behavior. The neolib typically projects hatred, bigotry, selfishness, and greed onto the individualist when there is no physical evidence to support the interpretation. The strong passions exhibited by neolibs, coupled with delusions of persecution, foster these masochistic tendencies. (Delusions of persecution? Well, slavery wasn't an illusion but some are choosing to be "persecuted" by it in 2009 and taking the term "never forget" to a whole different dimension)

Now let's objectively review the initiatives in the neolib agenda: Environmentalism, global passivism, overpopulation, socialized healthcare, and promoting government intervention into all aspects of life. All of these priorities require individuals to sacrifice their lifestyles, their income, and/or their basic comforts. (I'm thinking that Obama supporters just don't see it that way....although I'm not sure how they rationalize it because the discourse never seems to advance beyond racism and the presumed "buck dancing" of the black conservative...ahem, I mean the black phenomenologist)

This past week, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi exhorted, "Every aspect of our lives must be subjected to an inventory..." in order to sacrifice ourselves to the gods of global warming. As presidential candidate Obama said, "We can't drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times..." He seems to indicate that he wants us to starve and freeze. (Well 72 degrees is hardly freezing but when it's 13 degrees outside I should be free to turn my thermostat to 82 degrees if I want to and as long as I'm paying the utility bill. It's very sad and rather astounding how many really smart people have bought into this global warming scam. I guess all it takes to convince the masses is a movie.)

Most of these initiatives involve the inflicting of pain and misery. Tom Daschle, in his book "Critical: What We Can Do About The Health Care Crisis" says health-care reform "will not be pain free" and that seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of having them treated. In other words, you will suffer a slow agonizing death under government mandate. (I think it's fascinating that the black quasi-socialist fundamentalist progressive racism chasers aren't all over this. I guess they think that as long as we have a black POTUS that black senior citizens will get preferential treatment under ObamaCare)

As a final phenomenological exercise, impassively observe the level of neolib support for this agenda. It has not appeared to wane. In fact, neolib fervor continues to increase as the promised level of suffering increases. (I fully expect Neolibs to lie about the level of suffering they either have or will experience. Over the Memorial day weekend I was in conversation with Neolib, racism chasing friends who declared that the quality of life was better for them under the Clinton administration than the Bush administration. Because I was in mixed company I fought with every fiber of my being not to call them liars but they were lying through their teeth! These fools purchased cars,boats, furs, Rolexes and more as the pulled equity out of their homes and lived LARGE. Now that the loans have reset and the mortgage payments have increased they are blaming George Bush. I guess these well educated black professionals of PG county were duped. It's couldn't be they made bad decisions based on greed or a desire to keep up with the Joneses or in their cases the "Washington's" - lol)

According to Rancour-Laferriere, increasing Russian masochism coincided with the rise of the Soviet Union and Communism, although it was pervasive in the soul of Russia prior to that. The conclusion to this analysis is that as neolib moral masochism increases, so does the emotional need for an all-powerful master to govern them. As the governing master becomes more dominant and disciplinarian, the masochism is reinforced and the spiral continues.
(Well, I know nothing about Russians but I do know that as long as those who identify as Christians adopt the basic tenets of liberalism and fail to confront and openly admonish behaviors that lead to failure over behaviors that lead to success in the name of "tolerance" then we will continue to "need" government assistance. So that there is no confusion I'll just say what I mean -- as long as we accept our daughter dressing up like little (or big) harlots; and accept and sometimes encourage our sons to have several girlfriends; as long as we allow our sons to impregnate women without marrying them; or as long as we take our daughter's to get birth control pills instead of instilling in them as early as possible to abstain until marriage; as long as we allow our sons to turn a buck by any means necessary rather than study and excel in school in order to go to college or the military then all manner socially undesirable manifestations will ensue which ultimately lead to dependence of the government either in the form of welfare or the prison system.)

Is there a cure? Self-destructive behavior is very difficult to overcome. Many years ago in an Abnormal Psychology class, I studied the case of a group of young adults who would continually pound their heads against a wall until they became bloody pulps. Psychologists found that the only thing that would interrupt their behavior was a 9,000 volt shock from a cattle prod. (I hope my little space in the blogosphere can serve as a ideological cattle prod)

This is probably an impractical solution. Since 45% of the nation thinks we are going in the right direction, there are too many neolibs and too few cattle prods.

87 comments:

uptownsteve said...

Yeah, right.

Conservatives are such independent thinkers that they can be pursuaded to murder doctors by media blowhards.

Constructive Feedback said...

CBW:

Your friends @ Pajama really need to allow the embedding of their videos.

Check this one out:

http://www.pjtv.com/video/Klavan_on_culture/_Why_Are_Conservatives_So_Mean%3F/1949/;jsessionid=abcybdvbQ23-ofhyJ_Ggs

Constructive Feedback said...

WhiteBowieSteve:

More "Progressive Hip Hop Artists" have been killed in the last 5 years than have Abortion doctors in the last 30.


The fact that you have support for a man who has terminated 60,000 living beings as you wage protests over the 4,000 dead American soldiers (well at least you did BEFORE Obama got into office.)

JMK said...

"Conservatives are such independent thinkers that they can be pursuaded to murder doctors by media blowhards." (YUTZ)
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Nice one!

Back to the DUMBEST statement possible, right off the bat!

Alright! You're back on your game.

Unfortunately, you're just as misinformed as ever.

No pundits, no Talk Show hosts "incited" Scott Roeder to kill Dr. Tiller....any more than the Left-wing media is responsible for the actions of Carlos Bledsoe (Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad), an American-born convert to Islam, who shot up an Arkansas Army Recruiting office, killing one U.S. soldier and wounding another.

Actually, the laws on incitement are clear, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that you can, in effect, incite someone to break the law or commit violence so long as there is time between the incitement and the commission of the violence for somebody else to intervene and tell you that you’re wrong to try and act illegally on that incitement. If there is even that short period of time then your speech is protected even if you’re encouraging someone to break the law. The purpose of that is to give freedom of speech/free expression the benefit of the doubt and that’s vital because ONLY offensive, scatological, even what some would call inciteful speech NEEDS such protection.

They say "A stopped clock is right at least twice a day," so you're no stopped clock.....it's just that it'd be nice if you could get even ONE thing right every once in awhile.

DJ Black Adam said...

JMK:

And there you go right back into disingenous wilfully ignorant statements.

Bill O'Reily's rhetoric may not have been the primary agitatingf actor in what happened with that abortion doctor, but he did help fuel flames of discontent at the LEAST.

Shesh.

uptownsteve said...

Listen to the yahoos howl!!!!

O'Reilly, Coulter and Limbaugh among a few others are tangentially responsible for the killing of Dr. Tiller with their relentless demonization of the man and references to "Nazis" "Hitler" etc... ad nauseum.

AS far as the murdered hip hop artists over the last 5 years CF....

NAME EM.

warrantonegirl said...

Right on girl. Great post! I can't wait for more time to come read more of your posts!

DJ Black Adam said...

@CF:

You wrote: "The fact that you have support for a man who has terminated 60,000 living beings as you wage protests over the 4,000 dead American soldiers..."

Oh get off it man. I am firmly against late term abortions, BUT I am firmly against killing the doctors who perform them. Might as well kill all the people who have written laws to ALLOW them if one wan't to be consistant.....

uptownsteve said...

Thomas sez.....

"The neolib typically projects hatred, bigotry, selfishness, and greed onto the individualist when there is no physical evidence to support the interpretation."

No evidence????

How about the blatant racism, homophobia, distain for the poor and crass indulgence of the right?

Just for starters.

uptownsteve said...

"any more than the Left-wing media is responsible for the actions of Carlos Bledsoe (Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad), an American-born convert to Islam, who shot up an Arkansas Army Recruiting office, killing one U.S. soldier and wounding another."

Show me where the "leftwing media" demonized America's armed forces.

Take all the time you need.

DJ Black Adam said...

@UPtown:

You wrote: "How about the blatant racism, homophobia, distain for the poor and crass indulgence of the right?"

Exactly. OF course the right acts if if people are making this up, defending people like Buchannon, Helms and Thurmong, while calling people like Stomayor racist for comments similar to the ones they always seem to ignor from their camp. Base hypocrits at BEST.

uptownsteve said...

"Yes, black folks have begun to display framed pictures of the Obama's on the wall of their foyers. Just like the old folks used to display pictures of MLK, JFK and Jesus)"

What's wrong with that?

Would you rather Confederate flags?

Jee-sus.

uptownsteve said...

"The fact that you have support for a man who has terminated 60,000 living beings as you wage protests over the 4,000 dead American soldiers..."

The only time righties care about children is before they are born.

uptownsteve said...

"while calling people like Stomayor racist for comments similar to the ones they always seem to ignor from their camp."

I don't have a problem with what Sotomayer said.

These white righties and their black conservative lapdogs label as "racist" any person of color who challenges white supremacy.

Period.

JMK said...

"Bill O'Reily's rhetoric may not have been the primary agitatingf actor in what happened with that abortion doctor, but he did help fuel flames of discontent at the LEAST." (DJBA)
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No more or less than ANY anti-war organ (MSNBC, the NY Times, etc) is responsbile for the actions of Carlos Bledsoe in the murder of that Army recruiter in Arkansas.

Many in the MSM demonize America's Military, including Mary Mapes, who pushed the AbuGhraib story in the middle of a war with the inference that this was "the rule rather than exception".

As I noted, U.S. law is clear in that it allows people to incite, even to encourage others to break the law, or commit violence so long as there is time between the incitement and the commission of the violence for somebody else to intervene and tell you that you’re wrong to try and act illegally on that incitement. If there is even that short period of time then your speech is protected even if you’re encouraging someone to break the law. The purpose of that is to give freedom of speech/free expression the benefit of the doubt and that’s vital because ONLY offensive, scatological, even what some would call inciteful speech NEEDS such protection.That's, in essence why Khalid Mohammed wasn't charged with a crime for inciting violence and why Al Sharpton wasn't charged when a demented follower of his (WoW! That's redundant) burned down Freddy's Fashion Mart on 125th Street, killing five teenaged workers in that store.

Look DJ, it stands to reason why YUTZ would spew his hate-filled bile, you going down that same road, is worse, since you geneally have somewhat more common-sense than the aptly named YUTZ.

uptownsteve said...

"Many in the MSM demonize America's Military, including Mary Mapes, who pushed the AbuGhraib story in the middle of a war with the inference that this was "the rule rather than exception"."

HORSE$HIT.

Telling the truth about the atrocities at Abu Gharib was not demonizing the military.

This IS supposed to be a nation of laws, isn't it?

uptownsteve said...

"That's, in essence why Khalid Mohammed wasn't charged with a crime for inciting violence"

Where?

JMK said...

"while calling people like Stomayor... (YUTZ)
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"I don't have a problem with what Sotomayer..." (YUTZ)
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Uhhhh, could you please spell her name right even once?

It's Sotomayor.

How many polite corrections of your inaccuracies by me is that?

By my accounting its around 1,173.

uptownsteve said...

Actually Jethro,

I cut and pasted that statement from DJBA's post.

Try again.

JMK said...

The truth about the American Military is that it's the best trained, most restrained Military in the world today.

The MSM took a single event and tried to make that out to be "the rule rather than the exception," which, of course, it was.

They also ran with fictious accounts, like Haditha...


And Khalid Mohammed for his idiotic September 1998 hate fest that resulted in "28 injuries when police in riot gear stormed the stage on orders from the mayor, and Khallid exhorted the crowd to beat or shoot officers who attacked them".

Actually and ironically enough, THAT'S an example where there ISN'T any time between the incitement and the violence, so Khalid Mohammed should've been charged and prosecuted.

Ironically enough, by that time, in the late Khalid Mohammde's life, "backing for the disgraced former Nation of Islam spokesman dwindled to such a low ebb that black politicians who had been reluctant to criticize him for fear of alienating segments of the African American community began to publicly shout him down. "This march shouldn't take place in Harlem or anywhere but hell, and Khallid can go down there with it," said Harlem councilman Bill Perkins, who has surfaced as Khallid's most outspoken critic. "There is no support for it. Period."

JMK said...

"I cut and pasted that statement from DJBA's post." YUTZ)
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You mispelled it TWICE there genius.

So, you're claiming it's only 1,172 corrections now?

uptownsteve said...

JMK

Looks to me like Giuliani's stormtroopers were the ones issuing the violence, doesn't it?

But white right violence is good violence, isn't it?

uptownsteve said...

Harping on spelling on a messageboard (and lying) is the sign of a whupped racist.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS~You ask what's wrong with black folks who have begun to display pictures on the Obama's in their foyers to which I can only reply......Ignorance (either generic or willful) but beyond that Poor Self-Esteem. These negroes are felt such "dispair" prior to "THE ONE's" coronation that they have elevated him to the position of "savior" when he fully intends destroy those who employ these said negroes even if they are employed by other negroes and therefore these negroes who feel so inspired and "lifted" at the sight of this handsome black POTUS and his statuesque and regal wife (with beautifully toned arms)and are so moved to memorialize the sight of this couple on the walls of their foyers are simply deceived and it saddens me that so many have been beguiled by this man and that you and others feel so debased and oppressed in this day and age.

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]
O'Reilly, Coulter and Limbaugh among a few others are tangentially responsible for the killing of Dr. Tiller with their relentless demonization of the man and references to "Nazis" "Hitler" etc... ad nauseum.[/quote]

Steve:

I would LOVE to accept the common standard that ANY FORCE that incessantly talks about the THREAT of a person OR the actual killing of that person IF they step to the lyricist THEN I would have you attacking HIP HOP ARTISTS in the same way that you do Limbaugh, O'Reilly and other CONSERVATIVE commentaries.

For consideration by STEVE:
http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/2009/05/destroying-racist-scare-crows-and.html

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS you write~"These white righties and their black conservative lapdogs label as "racist" any person of color who challenges white supremacy."

I think you are indeed the one who feel that whites are "supreme" because you don't seem capable of advancing any discourse beyond race. Do you really feel that "oppressed". Good grief! Is that all you think about day in and day out.

uptownsteve said...

CBW

I see that you, like the white rightwingers you so desparately try to impress, are merely offended by black pride in and identification with our first black President.

That pride offends YOU because it bothers white righties.

That's very sad my sister and I know that you don't think so but you have serious identity issues.

uptownsteve said...

CF

Those hip hop artists murdered in the last 5 years???

Still waiting.

You wouldn't have pulled that out of your butt, would you?

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS you write:"The only time righties care about children is before they are born."

Yeah right, that's why it is the DEMONcrats who will not send their children to public schools yet deny vouchers to the children that PPFA failed to abort so that these children can attend private schools. Do you really think it is "black child love" that motivates the DEMONcrats to hand out WIC and whatever else they give the poor in order to keep them voting for them. Yep, it's real loving to keep you dumb by indoctrinating you in our gov't schools. It's really loving the DEMONcrats to take the money of the productive members of society to provide for those who could provide for themselves but why should they if the DEMONcrats are more than willing as long as they can count on their votes.

Good grief UTS -- spit out the Kool-Aid! Don't you see what's happening?

uptownsteve said...

Talk about Kool Aid.

Your post is straight out of the anus of Sean Hannity, CBW.

You just repeat the bile your rightwing pontificators put in your head.

Explain something to me.

What percentage of DC school children do you believe will be eligible for vouchers if the program was implemented?

And if you admit that it is only small fraction of DC school children, how can that possibly be about choice or improving the public school system???

Can't you see that vouchers are just another rightwing scheme to privatize a government function?

And that it also has it's roots in the American segregation movement?

WAKE UP BLACK WOMAN!

uptownsteve said...

"Do you really think it is "black child love" that motivates the DEMONcrats to hand out WIC and whatever else they give the poor in order to keep them voting for them."

Welfare as we knew it was ended over ten years ago CBW.

The rolls have been slashed by millions.

But that doesn't top the right from demonizing the poor.

While corporate heads accept billions in taxpayer bailout money for their screwups.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS you write~"I see that you, like the white rightwingers you so desparately try to impress, are merely offended by black pride in and identification with our first black President.

That pride offends YOU because it bothers white righties.

That's very sad my sister and I know that you don't think so but you have serious identity issues."
You know what UTS if "BLACK PRIDE" means lending blind support to a black man who is as diametrically different than I am ideologically and whom I believe will destroy opportunities for wealth accumulation for my daughter and the quality of life for my family by his radical policy then I guess that I do have seriousidentity issues.

I guess if "Black Pride" trumps the Truth.....how sad. God said it best "My people perish for lack of knowledge".

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS you write~"Can't you see that vouchers are just another rightwing scheme to privatize a government function?" <===== Therein lies the problem. So many black folks believe that the "education" of their precious children is a "government function". ARE YOU SERIOUS? I wouldn't want the government to train my dogs much less my CHILD!!!! Yes, the voucher system benefitted a small percentage of children but now NO CHILDREN will benefit from it.

And that it also has it's roots in the American segregation movement?"<====Please explain? How is it that? Seems to me that it's the Dem's who want to BANISH the black children far away from their children at SIDWELL FRIENDS, GEORGETOWN VISITATION, AND ST STEPHENS & ST AGNES (my daughter went to school without the benefit of a voucher with that racist Robert Byrd's granddaughter -- I'm sure he wasn't happy to see my daughter swimming in the family pool)and relegate them to dispicable public schools in far less exclusive parts of town. Yes, it seems to me that it is indeed the Dem's who are all about segregation.

uptownsteve said...

"You know what UTS if "BLACK PRIDE" means lending blind support to a black man who is as diametrically different than I am ideologically and whom I believe will destroy opportunities for wealth accumulation for my daughter and the quality of life for my family by his radical policy then I guess that I do have seriousidentity issues."

Oh Christ.

Can you please tell me how you and the country at large has benefitted from the almost total rightwing rule of the last 8 years???

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Those hip hop artists murdered in the last 5 years???[/quote]

You are joking right?

I heard on the news this morning that 4 ABORTION DOCTORS have been killed since 1993.

Do you REALLY think it would be hard for me to pull up the requisite amount of Hip Hop murders?

(I have to set this up for STEVE.
You see STEVE is inclined to say about ME: "CS you just love showing Black people behaving badly".

IN TRUTH he SHOULD BE SAYING "Look at this CULTURE OF DEATH AND VIOLENCE and despite this THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY operatives STILL invite these people on stage in order to get Black people to vote for them.)


* Rap Artist "Dolla" a few weeks ago in Hollywood CA - http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/celebrity-gossip/2009/05/19/dolla-shot-dead-in-la/hip-hop-star-rapper-killed-in-los-angeles-shopping-mall-shooting.html

* Jam Master J (2002 - 7 years ago rather than 5)
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1458435/20021030/run_dmc.jhtml

* Rap Star C-Murder KILLS A Black Man: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/celebrity/corey_miller/5.html

* Rap Star Camoflauge Killed
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/916134/posts

* Rapper Sporty T killed in a FEMA trailer: http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories/wwl071508cbhomic.59151148.html

LIST OF RAP ARTISTS KILLED:
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2009/05/19/rapper_deaths.html



Hip Hop Tries To Break Image Of Violence
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1114/p01s04-ussc.html

From another article:

[quote]It's telling that Jackson chose the moniker 50 Cent to pay homage to Kelvin Martin -- a legendary Brooklyn stick-up kid from the 1980s, who is believed to have committed more than 30 murders and was also known as "50 Cent." This outlaw quality is not just an image from a music video on MTV or BET -- it has, in some cases, become a reality. [/quote]

uptownsteve said...

"And that it also has it's roots in the American segregation movement?"<====Please explain? How is it that?"

Read and learn my misguided sister.

"Vouchers were first introduced in the United States by the southern states seeking to avoid court-ordered desegregation of the public schools. Throughout the south, white parents withdrew their children from public schools and established private "white-flight academies," which were often indirectly publicly funded. The most famous of these efforts was in Prince Edward County, Virginia, which closed its public schools rather than comply with an order to desegregate them. The county and state then provided vouchers that the white students used to attend all-white private schools, while the African American community was denied formal education for a four-year period. The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the program as unconstitutional."

DJ Black Adam said...

@CF:

Listen to a Mann Parish record, then talk to me about "Hip Hop".

http://www.last.fm/music/Man+Parrish/_/Hip+Hop,+Be+Bop+(Don't+Stop)

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

This CF is pathetic in his endless mission to demonize blacks and defend massa.

PATHETIC.

He googled for hours to come up with names nobody ever heard of or some thug who called himself a rapper and was engaged in street violence.

With CF every critique of whites or conservatives has to be countered with a reference to black criminals.

It's his MO. His reason for living.

Conservative Black Woman said...

UTS you write~" almost total rightwing rule of the last 8 years???"

At best 6. You forget that the DEMONcrats have controlled congress since 2006.

Well, my beguiled Obama lovin', racism chasin', advance degree holdin' friends got bigger houses, more luxurious cars, finer jewelry during that awful Bush administration. That damn George Bush made them run up massive debt and forced them into subprime loans. But they have no fear because "The One" that fine azz Barack Obama is going to make those corrupt banks modify their loans and he is going to "fix" their health insurance. Ya'll are some DUMB AZZES I just can't be polite about it anymore. Stupid is as Stupid does and all this OBAMA defending is plum stupid in light of the fact that he is going to tax the hell out of us, disincentivize those who employ us to hire more, produce more, hell give us pay raises. This man is cause more harm than good to an already ailing economy and you Obama supporters are so enraptured by this guy that you don't realize he is hurting you. Useful idiots is what ya'll are.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"The One" that fine azz Barack Obama is going to make those corrupt banks modify their loans and he is going to "fix" their health insurance."

In the words of Jamie Kennedy: "Don't hate...don't hate..."

lol

Constructive Feedback said...

[quote]Vouchers were first introduced in the United States by the southern states seeking to avoid court-ordered desegregation of the public schools.[/quote]

Steve - please tell me if I FAIL to capture the essence of your logic.

When Steve is asked:
"With failing government operated school systems like the one in Baltimore, DC and Philly....WHY are you opposed to school choice Steve?"

Steve's JUSTIFICATION is - 'Well you know back in the day when WHITE FOLKS were reassigned to Black schools so that their presence in the same class room as Black students was meant to provide educational benefit for the Black kids that now had the privilege to sit next to a White kid.....these White parents began to PULL THEIR KIDS OUT OF the government operated schools and started private schools.

DON'T FALL FOR THE TRICK TODAY!! Since WHEN did conservatives care about having Black kids get a quality education?

That's why we PURGED THEM from control of our school systems. Now that when you see a failing Black majority school system......you can be PROUD as there are LIBERALS running the district, just as we worked so hard to get into office....because at least they care about Black kids...." :-/

Conservative Black Woman said...

CF~That video about Toqueville as amazing. I've got to find a way to embed that. Thanks for sharing. I was offline all weekend and missed it.

uptownsteve said...

I can't say anything more to CBW today.

She's got a terminal case of the "Jessie Lee Petersons".

You need a "soul vaccination".

Keeps you from getting "honky pox".

Tower of Power.

uptownsteve said...

CF

Shut up will you?

These districts aren't failing because they are black.

They are failing because they are poor.

And before you give me the rightwing rant about "more money spent per student in DC", tell me where this money is going specifically because it sure ain't going to the students.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CF and Uptown:

"And before you give me the rightwing rant about "more money spent per student in DC", tell me where this money is going specifically because it sure ain't going to the students."

Since I believe you both care about the children in places like DC, Chicago, Detroit, etc. and we all can concede these are porr districts our Black brothers and sisters inhabit, yet factually can see these districts are funded per student decently, the question now becomes one of ACCOUNTABILITY.

CF, what are your suggestions?

Uptown, what are your suggestions?

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

The government of a locality is the largest dealer in interpersonal violence in that locality (definition). Every law on the books is a threat by the State to kidnap (arrest), to assault (subdue), and to forcibly infect with HIV (imprison) someone, under some specified circumstance. "There ought to be a law..." indicates that the speaker looks to solve some problem with organized violence.

Nowadays, in the US, "liberal" means "socialist". In parts of Europe and in Japan, today, and in the 19th century US it meant, approximately, what "libertarian" means today in the US. It was in the libertarian sense that Mussolini excoriated "liberals" in his essay "What is Fascism".

In __The Road to Wigan Pier__, George Orwell speculated that a socialist orientation may express a hypertrophied sense of order, a compulsion akin to obsessive handwashing or folding the towels in the linen closet 15 times a day. Elsewhere (e.g., "Raffles and Mrs. Blandish", "Inside the Whale"),
Orwell suggests that a preference for authoritarian politics indicates vicarious sadism. In "Socialism", Ludwig Von Mises suggests that socialism expresses a revenge fantasy.

The tools available to State actors are violence and threats of violence. Socialists (i.e., modern "liberals") entertain themselves with the fantasy "What a wonderful world it would be if I ran it".

You cannot enjoy a movie unless you buy a ticket. You cannot enjoy the fantasy of winning the lottery unless you buy a ticket. You cannot enjoy the fantasy of punishing the exploiters, the price-gougers and the money-lenders unless the State has authority to enforce minimum wage laws, price controls, and rent control laws. Liberals (socialists) buy this ticket when they vote.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

And if you tell them that it's a sick, stupid fantasy, they get upset.

ziggy said...

CBW-God bless you for allowing UTS and DJBlackAdam to continue to post on this site. Reading their posts turn my stomach. The ignorance is mind-boggling, its akin to mental retardation. They just cannot assess info that deviates from their line of reasoning, with racism being their only line of reasoning.

Constructive Feedback and JMK: Keep strong and continue to post the truth. You guys are my heroes. I don't know how you continue to go back and forth with those two. I can't continue to read their drivel.

UTS and DJBlackAdam: You should be respectful to the conservatives on this site that continue to engage you. They are exhibiting superhuman strength when they refute your mush-minded foolishness without resorting to base insults.

CBW keep up the good work. I won't be coming back to this site for a long while.

uptownsteve said...

Ziggy,

Why don't you go hunting with Dick Cheney?

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

I'm all for accountability.

You said that you were involved with Chicago politics.

Just where is all this "decent funding per student" going because it damn sure isn't going to educating the children.

Seems to me that should be the first target of interest for anyone dedicated to refroming the public school system.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

(Steve): "I'm all for accountability...Just where is all this 'decent funding per student' going because it damn sure isn't going to educating the children. Seems to me that should be the first target of interest for anyone dedicated to refroming the public school system."

What you call "the public school system" is a set of policies which features:
1) Compulsory attendance (truancy) statutes applied to minors.
2) Compulsory attendance (educational neglect) statutes applied to parents.
3) Compulsory tax financing of schools.
4) Laws (in many US States) and district policies (in others) which restrict parents' options for the use of the taxpayers' age 6-18 education subsidy to schools operated by State (that is, government) employees.
5) State (that is, government) ownership of school facilities.
6) A State or District mandated curriculum.
7) In many States, mandated collective bargaining for government-school employees.

In addition, this system features

8) Minimum wage laws and child labor laws which reduce opportunities for on-the-job training.

What we in the US call "the public school system" originated in anti-Catholic bigotry. This system has become an employment program for dues-paying members of the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel, a source of padded construction and supply contracts for politically-connected insiders, and a venue for State-worshipful indoctrination.

It does not take 12 years at $12,000 per pupil-year to teach a normal child to read and compute. Most vocational training occurs more effectively on the job than in a classroom. State (that is, government) provision of Civics and History instruction is a threat to democracy, just as State operation of newspapers would be (is, in totalitarian countries). We do not need to know how and where the bureaucrats waste the K-12-dedicated revenue stream. The most effective accountability mechanism humans have yet devised is the ability of unhappy customers to take their business elsewhere. Someone dedicated to reforming the US State-monopoly school system might be interested in the details of how the bureaucrats currently waste the money which politicians give them. Anyone dedicated to education would support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine for their own children which institution (if any) shall receive the taxpayers' K-12-dedicated revenue stream.

But then, the socialists could not enjoy their fantasy of prescribing the curriculum for other people's children.

JMK said...

"Looks to me like Giuliani's stormtroopers were the ones issuing the violence, doesn't it?

"But white right violence is good violence, isn't it?" (YUTZ)
<
<
<
ALL the injuries that occurred were the result of Khalid Mohammed'd incitement; "28 injuries when police in riot gear stormed the stage on orders from the mayor, and Khallid exhorted the crowd to beat or shoot officers who attacked them".

Police are legally obligated to enforce the law and they alone have arrest powers. As a matter of fact, Khalid Mohammed was unable to get a permit for that "rally" (hate-fest), so the act of staging a street protest without permits was breaking the law.

A citizen who feels he/she is being wrongfully arrested has NO right to challenge law enforcement in the street. The ONLY venue in which a citizen can rightfully challenge an arrest is in court. Even the mere act of walking away when a cop stops you is legally "resisting arrest".

When police disperse a crowd they are "performing their duties."

When members in that crowd refuse to disperse, they are breaking the law.

It's really just as simple as that.

Conservative Black Woman said...

Malcolm Kirkpatrick you write~"The most effective accountability mechanism humans have yet devised is the ability of unhappy customers to take their business elsewhere. Someone dedicated to reforming the US State-monopoly school system might be interested in the details of how the bureaucrats currently waste the money which politicians give them. Anyone dedicated to education would support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine for their own children which institution (if any) shall receive the taxpayers' K-12-dedicated revenue stream.

But then, the socialists could not enjoy their fantasy of prescribing the curriculum for other people's children"


You pegged it brilliantly my friend! It's understandable that the socialists who wield power like Pres. Obama & company throw the masses under the bus to perserve and maintain their power but I shall never understand how supposed intellectuals without said power who have the ability to reason would be so invested in their perverse ideology that they are willing to sacrifice the minds of their children.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

Conservative Black Woman,

Thank you for the kind words.

"I shall never understand how supposed intellectuals without said power who have the ability to reason would be so invested in their perverse ideology that they are willing to sacrifice the minds of their children."

We attempt to peer into their minds, with your post and my speculations. To the puzzle yo pose above, I suggest a mix of possibilities. First, mostly their own children attend independent schools or selective "magnet" schools, or exclusive G/T classes. I believe it was La Rochfocauld who observed that "every man has the strength to endure the misfortunes of others". In this limited sense, I believe that support for the "public school system" qualifies as "racist" in that people find it easy to fill a void in their understanding of little-known "others" (e.g., blue-collar blacks, if one is a white academic) with stereotypes, and to attribute, say, the black/white test score gap or the black crime rate to defects in the home environment of blue-collar kids. It's a small and usally unconscious and unadmitted step to "they bring it upon themselves and so deserve it".

Also, that fantasy of control is as addictive as crystal meth or niccotine.

Individual parents to not need to wait for policy-makers to kick the control habit. Some States are pretty relaxed about homeschooling. For example, nothing in Hawaii law requires that homeschooling instruction occur between 8 a.m. and 2:30 p.m. It's legal to extend daycare to age 18.

I do not believe that the system will fall to reasoned argument and statistical analysis. Eventually, homeschoolers and parochial school graduates will shame system supporters out of their control addiction. It's a tragedy that so many will suffer in the mean while.

uptownsteve said...

"ALL the injuries that occurred were the result of Khalid Mohammed'd incitement; "28 injuries when police in riot gear stormed the stage on orders from the mayor, and Khallid exhorted the crowd to beat or shoot officers who attacked them".

More of your lies.

The cops stormed the stage on orders from Giuliani because the mayor didn't like the rhetoric being expressed.

Muhammad, as odious as he was, did not engage or initiate violence and exhorted the crowd obviously to defend themselves against police aggression.

It's really as simple as THAT.

uptownsteve said...

Oh BTW JMK,

How come guys like you always want to discuss Khalid Muhammad, a dead demoagogue, and Al Sharpton but not Rudy Giuliani, a mayor and Presidential candidate who incited a racist police riot????

"...Mr. Giuliani took a fateful step that would for years prompt questions about his racial sensitivities. In September 1992, he spoke to a rally of police officers protesting Mr. Dinkins's proposal for a civilian board to review police misconduct.


It was a rowdy, often threatening, crowd. Hundreds of white off-duty officers drank heavily, and a few waved signs like "Dump the Washroom Attendant," a reference to Mr. Dinkins. A block away from City Hall, Mr. Giuliani gave a fiery address, twice calling Mr. Dinkins's proposal "bullshit." The crowd cheered. Mr. Giuliani was jubilant.

Giuliani actually triggered a police riot. The police were demonstrating against some initiative of the Dinkin's administration. Something along the lines of forcing them to respect the fourth and fifth amendments, instituting a civilian review board, or ending police brutality. The enraged officers were milling around City Hall, going in and out of the numerous bars with green awnings. The would-be mayor stood up on the steps of City Hall and delivered a speech so inflammatory that the cops closed the Brooklyn Bridge and beat up journalists. Yes, a New York City police riot delivered to you personally by the law and order candidate. At the very least, an abominable lack of judgment on Giuliani's part---one for which he was never held responsible."

Let the spinning begin!

uptownsteve said...

"Anyone dedicated to education would support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine for their own children which institution (if any) shall receive the taxpayers' K-12-dedicated revenue stream."

More "privatization" bull$hit..

We saw how that worked in Iraq with Blackwater.

You know "privatizing" the military.

Massive cost overruns, overrcharging and corruption.

You righties don't want any real examination of the so called "decent funding per student" of the public school system because maybe.......just maybe........you're full of $hit....and the schools, particularly ghetto schools...aren't being properly funded.

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

You wrote: "Just where is all this "decent funding per student" going because it damn sure isn't going to educating the children.

Seems to me that should be the first target of interest for anyone dedicated to refroming the public school system."

AGain, I agree, the money is there, but it is being misapropiated or not divided fairly, in either case accountability of whatever government is necessary. That is what I advoacate that the people demand. Second, curriculem needs to be addressed.

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

One conservative canard is that more money per pupil is supposedly spent in the DC public school system per pupil than any other school system in the country.

Wel where the hell is that money going?

When I was in telecommunications sales, I did business with the DC Public School system and I spent a lot of time in DC schools and saw crumbling infrastructure, substandard books and supplies, no heat or air conditioning, ceilings and floors with water damage...etc

And I met many totally dedicated and caring teachers and administrators who were just overwhelmed by the obstacles they faced.

Where is all that money going?

The righties ran the Dept of Education for the last 8 years.

Why didn't they do a direct accounting of how all this money is being spent if they were so concerned about educating our children?

You know why?

Because righties are only concerned about gutting the system, not repairing it.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

"Because righties are only concerned about gutting the system, not repairing it."

I would agree, but, I have to add, that somehow, the local governments need to have their feet held to the fire on this. They need to open the books and show the public what they are doing with the money they get.

Plus, until things are fair (if they ever are), those communities and the people in them need to do what we do in the Corps, more with less, and have a better curriculum than the suburban schools with money. For example the ARMY gets more money then us, we still are BETTER at the art of soldiering than them because our standards are higher even if our funding isn't.

uptownsteve said...

"I would agree, but, I have to add, that somehow, the local governments need to have their feet held to the fire on this. They need to open the books and show the public what they are doing with the money they get."

I totally agree.

But don't you think that Conservatives who ran the Federal Government for most of the last 8 years and ran the Department of Education should have made accountability and honest bookeeping their first priority?

This would have been a golden opportunity to show corruption and mismanagement of urban Democratic controlled public school systems if that actually were the case as well an opportunity to correct it.

Instead it was the same old tired rants about the NEA and vouchers.

I'm not convinced that urban public schools are properly funded.

Let's see an accounting.

I'm curious as to what Obama's administration is going to do about this.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

You wrote: "Instead it was the same old tired rants about the NEA and vouchers. I'm not convinced that urban public schools are properly funded."

You bring up some good points. If the Federal government wanted to expose corruption, local school baords should have been ordeder to be audited by the state authorities (if they wanted federal matching funds). Perhaps the Obama administration may do this? Until then, I am urging people in these communities to demand it.

You are right though, the "right" did nothing but b!$^& about the NEA (Unions as ususal), and not attempt to get to the root cause, while forcing their voucher plan through.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Ziggy:

You write: "UTS and DJBlackAdam: You should be respectful to the conservatives on this site that continue to engage you. They are exhibiting superhuman strength when they refute your mush-minded foolishness without resorting to base insults"

The fact that your simple mind could contrive what you wrote without seeing the blatant contradictions in your own words, only exemplifies why people like you are beneath me. Do not address your betters with such an insolent tone cretin, go an learn some manners.

Sheesh, give these commoners computers and they think they can pretend to have a brain...

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

Way to tell him.

Righties hate challenge and debate.

They just want to be fed their Kool-Aid and allowed to simmer in blissful ignorance.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

(Steve): "You righties don't want any real examination of the so called "decent funding per student" of the public school system because maybe.......just maybe........you're full of $hit....and the schools, particularly ghetto schools...aren't being properly funded."

a) The left/right political classification scheme indicates a one-dimensional view of the political continuum, which I do not share.
b) You have a foul mouth,
c) I have used NCES tables and other sources to examine the relation between total enrollment, minority enrollment, per-pupil funding, and NAEP Reading and Math score performance. As districts increase in size, costs rise and scores fall. There are some interesting and instructive exceptions.
National Public Education Finance Survey

Revenues and Expenditures for Public School Districts over 15,000Enrollment

Note Total Revenues (Washington, DC, 2004-2005) = $1,109,605x1,000.

This table gives a total DC enrollment (2004-2005) of 59,616.
this handy calculator says that's $18,612 per pupil.

Beyond a very low level, there is no positive relation between the level of per pupil funding and standardized test performance. Every country on the planet spends less, per pupil, than the US, and many which spend about 1/2 of the US per pupil budget do far better, as measured by PISA and TIMSS. Across the US, the top-spending States are not the top performers, as measured by NAEP.

If the better car costs less, why bother looking under the hood of the over-priced lemon?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

Funny how you utilize data yet convienetly ignore how to apply that data in any real form to deal with the actuality of what is happening in the school systems in question.

Typical disingenuous attitude of the extreme right.

uptownsteve said...

DJBA

Amen.

Just more rightwing bull$hit and diversion.

Let me try this again.

Malcolm, where exactly is that $18,000 going?

What is it being spent on because it damn sure isn't the student.

uptownsteve said...

**crickets**

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

(DJ): "Funny how you utilize data yet convienetly ignore how to apply that data in any real form to deal with the actuality of what is happening in the school systems in question. Typical disingenuous attitude of the extreme right."
(Choir): "Amen. Just more rightwing bullshit and diversion. Let me try this again. Malcolm, where exactly is that $18,000 going? What is it being spent on because it damn sure isn't the student."

We disagree that parent control fails do deal with systemic fraud in large school districts. As I observed earlier, the most effective accountability mechanism humans have yet devised is a policy which gives to unhappy customers the power to take their business elsewhere.

Steve seems to have gotten one important point, at last: the US tax-generated K-12 education budget is not spent on educating poor minority students in large districts, even though those districts get more money, per pupil, than most suburban majority-white districts.

Unless you believe that minority kids are inherently harder to educate (how old are you, Adam? Steve?), you have to consider fraud as the cause. That's all any parent (or policy-maker, really) needs to know. The details might matter to a jury.

If the topic of wasted funds really interests you, start with this.

Somehow, I suspect it doesn't. For example, what in Adam's criticism indicates any acquaintance with the details of State (government, generally) school funding? Anyone can say "you utilize data yet convienetly ignore how to apply that data in any real form to deal with the actuality of what is happening" without knowing anything about the topic under discussion. It's pure ad hominem.

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

I assume that fraud and outright misappropriation is the problem, simple as that. The Federal government could and should nudge the states by virtue of withholding of federal matching funds (as they did with no child left behind). I have already stated what needs to happen on the end of who you call the consumer who I call the parent. You speak in fiscal economic terms I speak in sociological ones, I think your chosen rhetoric betrays your lack of actual concern, please correct me if I am in error in that thought.

The community’s strongest mechanism for accountability is their VOTES.

As for my statement about your less than scientific and disingenuous use of your statistics or as I call it use of facts to support your extremist right wing fictions as opposed to dealing with the actual problems faced in inner and rural city schools. In other words, ad captandum vulgus, no different then the rest of the sycophantic cretins here, prove how conservative you are by towing your inane party line.

JMK said...

"The cops stormed the stage on orders from Giuliani because the mayor didn't like the rhetoric being expressed." (YUTZ)
<
<
<
The Mayor called on the police to put an end to an illegal (they were rightfully denied a permit by the city) hate-fest.

City government has the right to allow or deny permits to groups as they see fit.

Police are required to uphold the law.

Citizens have no such right.

In other words, a citizen who feels (even believes he KNOWS) he's being wrongly arrested, even mistreated, has absolutely NO RECOURSE, in the street.

The ONLY recourse that citizen has is in a court.

The Police are the final arbitors of what is legal and illegal out on the street.

Ergo, the attendees of that hate-fest had no right to interfer with the NYPD shutting down that illegal gathering.

Their only legitimate recourse would've been in a court of law.
<
<
<
"Muhammad, as odious as he was, did not engage or initiate violence and exhorted the crowd obviously to defend themselves against police aggression." (YUTZ)
<
<
Wrong aqain. As noted above, while a Police officer can arrest an individual based only on "suspicion" of a criminal act AND move to shut down an illegal activity (ie. a hate-fest without a permit), a citizen has no right to interfere with Police operations.

That is a citizen does not have any recognized powers to detain, nor arrest nor impede ANY Police action, even if they believe THAT (police) action to be unlawful.

The ONLY legitimate recourse against improper police action is in a court of law....ANY action by a citizen against a police officer is a "criminal act".

When the nazistic Khalid Mohammed "exhorted the crowd to beat or shoot officers who attacked them", he was inciting violence against the government....and since the ensuing violence occurred immediately (without the time for someone to say "stop, you're wrong to do that"), his exhorations DO NOT seem protected under that existing Supreme Court ruling.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

(Adam): "You speak in fiscal economic terms I speak in sociological ones, I think your chosen rhetoric betrays your lack of actual concern, please correct me if I am in error in that thought."

You're wrong.

(Adam): "The community’s strongest mechanism for accountability is their VOTES."

We disagree. Democratic political feedback mechanisms have many disadvantages relative to market feedback mechanisms. Among them:
1) The problem of infinite regress: who gets to frame the questions on which we vote? Do we vote on that? How is that vote composed? Do we vote on that? Etc.
2) Unless ballot measures are impossibly complicated and convoluted, they cannot express the range of options available in a market.
3) What size shoes shall we wear? Whatever size shoe wins the election, a majority of feet will suffer. The only way for an elective process to yield the satisfaction which a market will deliver is for the range of options which a market offers to be one of the options on the ballot, and for that option to win the election, in which case you might as well have had the market in the first place.
4) Markets are more democratic that elective processes. Your neighbor to the North will be happy to settle a boundary dispute in the ring, if his name is Mike Tyson. Your neighbor to the South will be happy to settle a dispute over the chessboard, if his name is Gary Kasparov. The political process is a specialized contest, which people with large vocabularies, abundant free time, a preference for conference rooms over the outdoors, a high tolerance for inane talk, and abundant sitzfleish will win.

(Adam): "As for my statement about your less than scientific and disingenuous use of your statistics or as I call it use of facts to support your extremist right wing fictions as opposed to dealing with the actual problems faced in inner and rural city schools."

Ummm, is that a complete sentence?

(Adam): "In other words, ad captandum vulgus, no different then the rest of the sycophantic cretins here, prove how conservative you are by towing your inane party line."

It's "toe the line", not "tow the line".

The State-monopoly school system has been in place for over 150 years. It's supporters of the system who qualify as "conservative".

DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

"It's "toe the line", not "tow the line"."

Since you have resorted to be a glorified spelling / grammar checker, I see there is no point in further continuing or little exchange. You are too petty to deal with.

Peace

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

((Steve): "Can't you see that vouchers are just another rightwing scheme to privatize a government function? And that it also has it's roots in the American segregation movement?"
(CBW): ""And that it also has it's roots in the American segregation movement?"<====Please explain? How is it that?"
(Steve): "Read and learn my misguided sister."
(Extended quote deleted)...

Source?

According to Joel Spring (__The American School__), in the British colonies of pre-Revolutionary North America, more polities subsidized attendance at Church-operated schools (vouchers, basically) or had no education policy at all than compelled attendance at government-operated schools. This market-oriented policy survived the Revolution and ended when waves of Catholic immigrants provoked an allergic response in the resident Protestant majority.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

(Adam): "In other words, ad captandum vulgus, no different then the rest of the sycophantic cretins here, prove how conservative you are by towing your inane party line."
(Malcolm): "It's 'toe the line', not 'tow the line'."
(Adam): "Since you have resorted to be a glorified spelling / grammar checker, I see there is no point in further continuing or little exchange. You are too petty to deal with."

Okay; it's "toe the line", not "tow the line", cretin.

DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

"Okay; it's "toe the line", not "tow the line", cretin."

What's next with you son? "I know you are but what am I"? Good lord....

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

"The writer either has a meaning and cannot express it, or he inadvertently says something else, or he is almost indifferent as to whether his words mean anything or not. This mixture of vagueness and sheer incompetence is the most marked characteristic of modern English prose, and especially of any kind of political writing. As soon as certain topics are raised, the concrete melts into the abstract and no one seems able to think of turns of speech that are not hackneyed: prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated henhouse. I list below, with notes and examples, various of the tricks by means of which the work of prose construction is habitually dodged:
Dying metaphors. A newly invented metaphor assists thought by evoking a visual image, while on the other hand a metaphor which is technically "dead" (e.g. iron resolution) has in effect reverted to being an ordinary word and can generally be used without loss of vividness. But in between these two classes there is a huge dump of worn-out metaphors which have lost all evocative power and are merely used because they save people the trouble of inventing phrases for themselves. Examples are: Ring the changes on, take up the cudgel for, toe the line, ride roughshod over, stand shoulder to shoulder with, play into the hands of, no axe to grind, grist to the mill, fishing in troubled waters, on the order of the day, Achilles' heel, swan song, hotbed. Many of these are used without knowledge of their meaning (what is a "rift," for instance?), and incompatible metaphors are frequently mixed, a sure sign that the writer is not interested in what he is saying. Some metaphors now current have been twisted out of their original meaning withouth those who use them even being aware of the fact. For example, toe the line is sometimes written as tow the line...."
"Politics and the English Language".
(You know, I'd forgotten that that particular example was in there.)

Consider, again, "a sure sign that the writer is not interested in what he is saying":...

In response to...
(Steve): "You righties don't want any real examination of the so called "decent funding per student" of the public school system because maybe.......just maybe........you're full of $hit....and the schools, particularly ghetto schools...aren't being properly funded" and...
(Steve): "One conservative canard is that more money per pupil is supposedly spent in the DC public school system per pupil than any other school system in the country" and...
(Steve): "I'm not convinced that urban public schools are properly funded"...

I supplied sources on district-level and State-level government-school funding and got this:...

(DJ): "Funny how you utilize data yet convienetly ignore how to apply that data in any real form to deal with the actuality of what is happening in the school systems in question. Typical disingenuous attitude of the extreme right."
(Choir): "Amen. Just more rightwing bullshit and diversion. Let me try this again. Malcolm, where exactly is that $18,000 going? What is it being spent on because it damn sure isn't the student"...

in response. That I addressed Steve's point seems utterly to have escaped Steve and Adam.

Now, if the "cretins" from whose fingers "shit" flows so easily would stop spamming the discussion with "petty", "disingenuous", "racist", autopilot-generated nonsense and actually think before they contribute, we might be able to engage in a civil exchange. Ya think?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

Get over yourself son, Steve and I were having a pretty decent discussion regarding the actual issues in regard to education, you and your right-wing nut attitude more specifically were of little or no consequence because of your overall disingenuous tone.

I called you a cretin, obviously your feelings got hurt, I apologize. That being said, I still doubt your actual concern regarding the issue.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

I.
(Adam): "Get over yourself, son."

I expect we're about the same age (I'm 60). I don't expect you'd appreciate it if I called you "boy".

II.
(Adam): "Steve and I were having a pretty decent discussion regarding the actual issues in regard to education, you and your right-wing nut attitude..."

a) Free use of the terms "right" and "left", applied to politics, indicates a one-dimensional view of the political continuum which I do not share.
b) "Attitude"? I wrote: "Anyone dedicated to education would support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine for their own children which institution (if any) shall receive the taxpayers' K-12-dedicated revenue stream" and Steve responded:...
"...bull$hit...You righties don't want any real examination of the so called 'decent funding per student' of the public school system because maybe.......just maybe........you're full of $hit....and the schools, particularly ghetto schools...aren't being properly funded".

I supplied links to statistical sources in response and asked: "If the better car costs less, why bother looking under the hood of the over-priced lemon?"

What "attitude"? Compare Adam's response to that:...

c) (Adam): "Typical disingenuous attitude of the extreme right".

Decent discussion = content-free ad hominem.

III.
(Adam): "... more specifically were of little or no consequence because of your overall disingenuous tone."

"Disingenuous" is the gone-to-college way to call someone a liar. What statement as to fact which I have supplied in this comment thread is untrue?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

You wrote: (Adam): "Get over yourself, son."
I expect we're about the same age (I'm 60). I don't expect you'd appreciate it if I called you "boy".--

Actually I'm 39. Now let me educate you a bit, from the Urban Dictionary:

"SON":

1) a close friend
2) used as an acceptable international greeting of a person whose name is unknown to you or one of which you have forgotten
ie: 1) "wassup son!" 2) "wassup son."

Now, I am sure you know what the term BOY means, or would mean to someone named BLACK ADAM. So I will assume you thought I was trying to insult you in some way, and not get bent oughta shape by your comparison. And I now know that you are 60, I can assume that you may not be familiar with certain colloquial terminology a 39 year old African American DJ from Chicago might use. So I am going to give you a pass on that whole "BOY" stuff.

You then write or restated: "Anyone dedicated to education would support policies which give to individual parents the power to determine for their own children which institution (if any) shall receive the taxpayers' K-12-dedicated revenue stream"

By mutual exclusion, you infer that anyone who doesn't agree with your presupposition isn't dedicated to education (or children in certain education systems) thus why the term DISINGENOUS was utilized.

From the Merriam Webster's:

DISINGENOUS: adjective lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere: i.e. Her excuse was rather disingenuous.

Thus my point, that I don’t think you are being sincere, meaning that, even if we disagree on what would help the situation from our differing perspectives, positing that ones predicates gives them the position of "actual" care goes beyond disagreement but assigning of motives. By your statement: “Anyone dedicated to education would support…” you infer that anyone who doesn't agree with your presupposition isn't dedicated to education. Whereas I said multiple times I am not sure of your actual concern for children in these systems as opposed to being more concerned about your own political philosophy. However, I, unlike you, admitted I could be wrong in the presumption. And further, have asked you to clarify.

Capice'?

DJ Black Adam said...

@Malcolm:

O.K. I went to your profile finally. I do see you are an educator. That still doesn't mean you care about children in the schools in Chicago and Detroit, BUT I am willing tio give you the benefit of the doubt by nature of your chosen profession.

So, I apologize for being overly defensive with you (sorry, I am in enemy territory so my guard is generally up).

Second, if I knew you were 60, I wouldn't have been so harsh with you, I carry a different tone with people in my age group than I do with people who are elders in our community who in my tradition, are to be respected, even in disagreement.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

Thanks, Adam,

Good friends will call each other dirty names just to prove their friendship, because only a friend could get away with it. We're not there yet, but we're working on it. You've put more work into it than I have, I admit.No irony intended. You apologized. Now I must.

Sorry.

I figured "son" and "boy" were both patronizing. My mistake.

I mirrored Steve's "Just where is all this 'decent funding per student' going because it damn sure isn't going to educating the children. Seems to me that should be the first target of interest for anyone dedicated to refroming the public school system". I presumed no more than did Steve.

Let's continue this conversation. I have some reading to do, now, though.

Later.

CBW, thanks for the forum.

odooley8939 said...

uptown steve
[quote]"while calling people like Stomayor racist for comments similar to the ones they always seem to ignor from their camp."

I don't have a problem with what Sotomayer said.

These white righties and their black conservative lapdogs label as "racist" any person of color who challenges white supremacy.

Period.[/quote]

Considering that it is liberals (statists) who will attack any minority or woman who strays off the liberal statist slave plantation I hardly think conservatives could be considered racist.

With regards to Obama's US Supreme Court judicial nominee:

1)She is a member of La Raza a blatantly racist organization.

2)She has had 4 of 6 decisions reversed by the US Supreme Court.

And again it was judicial tyranny prior to the US Civil War in Priggs v Pennslyvania and Dred Scott later in Plessy v Ferguson after the Civil War that contains much of the evil of the past you rail against.

I question why any minority would support anyone who subscribes to arbitrary law ie "living breathing US Constitution" since most of the dark moments of US history involve one branch or another of the Federal gov't doing so.

If you would understand conservative philosophy kindly reread the Federalist, Anti-Federalist and US Constitution.

For libertarianism The Road to Serfdom. (Which we are gleefully sprinting down nowadays instead of just strolling)

odooley8939 said...

For the US military liberals against:

Lexis Nexis the number of stories about Abu Grahib vs discovering the shell with sarin gas (binary so still good) or why you need remote handling in certain truck that was found.

FYI - Remote handling is pretty much only designed into something people can't get near - only time in my entire career was for the nuclear industry


Oh and calculate the number of people just that one shell could've killed in the wrong hands.

Angel Artiste said...

Love your blog! Keep fighting the good fight!!

Andrew Thomas
Darkangelpolitics.com