Reyna Garcia a student at Stanford University captured this footage of Condoleeza Rice. Ms. Rice eviscerates a know-it-all little liberal snot who is questioning her on torture. Truth is a beautiful thing. There is never a need to apologize when you do what is right and stand on truth. It's a shame that Condoleeza Rice wasn't running for President instead of John McCain. Perhaps next time that little fellow will come armed with the facts before he tries to impune an authority who has first hand information.
It's funny how all of the idle chatter in the room hushed and all eyes turned towards her when she began to educate this guy.
51 comments:
"It's a shame that Condoleeza Rice wasn't running for President instead of John McCain."
ROTFLMBAO!!!!!!!
That's a good one.
Keep 'em comin.
Rice didn't run because she knows that no matter how much white conservatives pat black conservatives on the head and tell them how smart and independent they are, they're not going to vote for you for anything signicificant.
Do you righties see how the RNC committeemen are trying to circumvent the fiscal authority of the chairman all of a sudden.
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/rnc-members-seek-tighter-money-controls-2009-04-29.html
It wouldn't have anything to do with the present chairman being BLACK would it?
Open your eyes, willya?
I do not know if I agree with you uptown Steve. I met many white conservatives that wished Condi would run. We have to stop letting the "what if's" stop us. I believe that when Obama first announced his presidency, he was not sure how far he would go. Iowa changed that. Republicans should show the same gumption. I am hoping that Palin runs in 2012.
http://afrocityblog.wordpress.com/
Nazi Germany did attack the homeland of the US. In the first six months of 1942 over 1500 US citizens were killed in US territorial waters by the Kriegsmarine. In fact the Axis powers attacked US territory a number of times in a number of ways. There's even a Wikipedia article if you want to see the exact details.
Dr Rice was either lying or simply doesn't know her own country's history in that respect.
As for the OSCE calling Guantanamo a model prison, a spokesman went to the trouble of saying "The person quoted in several of the stories as "an OSCE expert", Professor Alain Grignard, accompanied the delegation despatched by the Parliamentary Assembly, based in Copenhagen, but he was not employed or commissioned by the OSCE."
Since Grignard is a high level law-enforcement official, let's even assume that DR Rice assumed he represented the OSCE, but what did he actually say? Basically that the facilities were better than in Belgian prisons but that holding people indefinitely in that way was mental torture. I'm not sure that's the ringing endorsement she made it out to be.
As for the ICRC, you can read their report here www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
In this case I'll just say hmmm
I could go on but what's the point?
Essentially Dr Rice browbeat a student with false statements in order to make herself look righteous and wise. In conclusion, she's a typical politician.
"I do not know if I agree with you uptown Steve. I met many white conservatives that wished Condi would run."
Like who? Name one prominent one.
As far as white conservative bloggers, it's all mouth.
What happened to Blackwell, Steele and Swann?
They all lost their asses because they were abandoned by the Republican base, white rightwingers, who will not support a black at gunpoint.
Do you ever ask yourself WHY a black democrat is in the White House, there are two black Democratic Governors, numerous black democratic mayors and congressmen but a black Republican can't get elected to a city council?
When are you black righties going to wake up?
We have to stop letting the "what if's" stop us. I believe that when Obama first announced his presidency, he was not sure how far he would go. Iowa changed that. Republicans should show the same gumption. I am hoping that Palin runs in 2012.
I live in Ohio, and I saw up close and personal what happened to Ken Blackwell. UTS, you have no idea what you're talking about.
The fact that Blackwell was not elected governor in Ohio had far more to do with a backlash against Bush and Bob Taft(idiot Republican outgoing governor at the time) than it had to do with Blackwell's race. He received very strong support from white conservatives, especially white conservative Christians.
The most vicious attacks he received were from black democratic politicians that accused him of trying to suppress the black vote when he was Secretary of State, an office he won because a bunch of white conservatives voted for him.
I remember a banner that was hung over the main interstate in Columbus that read "Black? Well not really." I severely doubt that white conservatives hung that banner.
Judy,
The blacks in Ohio aren't voting Republican anyway.
Blackwell lost because a lot of the white conservatives who were are normally reliable Republican votes either sat out the race or voted for the white Democrat.
Deal with it.
"I remember a banner that was hung over the main interstate in Columbus that read "Black? Well not really." I severely doubt that white conservatives hung that banner."
Why not?
A poster here, Jules, swears I'm not black because I used the word "knickers" and he claims a "real black" would never do that.
Funny how I didn't hear any black righties confront him about that.
Torture does not yeild credible intelligence.
Hi CBW,
I am new to your blog and linked to it at mine, very good site here.
DJ Black Adam, torture certainly works for Al Qaeda. But that's for another time.
What you are calling torture is not torture. Many Soldiers in the Army go through that treatment at the survival course.
We as a nation are running out of options when it comes to interrogation. With the obama administration hindering us further by using his own ideology and pandering to special interest groups who think that the rest of the world drinks dandelion water and wears flowers, he emboldens terrorists. Many of the terror plots that were thwarted in the past will not be as likely to be diverted now.
You cannot sit down and talk to extremists because they believe everything that they are taught in Madrassas and due to their contempt of the United States and the West in general.
UTS,
I thought the conversation between you and Jules was idiotic so I didn't address what either of you said. Of course I'm not a black righty so it wouldn't matter anyways.
And I still know more about Ohio politics than you do.
Ilé Meroë~I don't think that Ms. Rice is either uninformed or intentionally misleading. There is a world of difference between an attack on US territorial waters and a mainland attack. Al-Qaeda was actually able to orchestrate a successful attack on the mainland of the United States. That's just a bit too close for comfort for me.
"DJ Black Adam, torture certainly works for Al Qaeda. But that's for another time."
So America should emulate Al Qaeda?
We can assume you're a registered Republican, right?
too much.
"It's a shame that Condoleezza Rice wasn't running for President instead of John McCain"I agree 100% but then I am the group owner of Rice for President Yahoo Group!
The point to note from this student video is that Presidential authorizations are only empowered by the constitution and the law and it isn't the case that a president's written order or verbal command or whatever always stands up as a legal, constitutional presidential authorization.
It isn't the case that the word of the president alone becomes law because the president in a constitutional republic has limited powers and not the unlimited powers of a dictator or a monarch.
I am not a lawyer so I cannot say for sure whether US or international law outlaws waterboarding or not (though I trust it IS outlawed) but if it is illegal then the president couldn't just overrule the law by saying - "it's OK, I'm the president saying you can do it, so that makes it legal".
To summarize I would say it sounds like Condi was fed some flimsy legal arguments in 2002 to justify the "enhanced interrogation" techniques thought to be expedient at the time but which many people would see as torture.
However Condi did not simply lap up those flimsy legal arguments. She was fed them but they did not sit well in her stomach so she spat them out soon enough when it was polite to do so.
Meanwhile, conveying the president's wishes to the CIA in 2002, Condi was acting as little more than a messenger, so don't shoot the messenger.
Condi also mentions that the authorization was subject to the Justice Department's clearance so if they cleared it, and they are the lawyers responsible then it is their fault for not giving better legal advice.
The Justice Department should have said "no way is waterboarding legal" and their failure to do so has brought us to this point.
It needs to be understood that the National Security Advisor job Condi was doing in 2002 has no executive command responsibilities.
Condi could not tell the CIA what to do because only the President gives the orders and only the Director of Central Intelligence, a.k.a. "the Director of the CIA", (then George Tenet), directed the CIA how to interrogate people.
When Condi became Secretary of State in 2005 she was in a more powerful position which she put to good use to put a stop to torture.
All Condi's public statements were unequivocally anti-torture and every time she spoke out against torture she stripped away more of the political cover those like Cheney inside the administration who were backing torture had.
In due course, the Bush-Cheney-CIA torturers were exposed for all to see how low they had stooped and the “enhanced interrogation” policy collapsed - thanks to Condi's public leadership against torture.
But it wasn't just that Condi argued publicly against torture - she also made moves inside the administration to get it stopped as soon as she had the power to do so.
As can been heard in this recent TV interview by Philip Zelikow for MSNBC - part 1, part 2 when Condi became Secretary of State and actually had some administrative authority in the administration (NSA is just an advisor) she put him (Zelikow) on the job of turning the Bush administration policy away from enhanced interrogation because she had grave concerns about the whole thing.
In other words, Condi used the power she had, which was limited, to do the right thing and that is EXACTLY what you need from a president.
Bush and Condi are different people altogether. Condi would not have picked Cheney as her VP and if somehow she had been lumped with a VP Cheney she would not have delegated to Cheney supervision of the CIA. That is my firm belief.
I don't know who Condi would pick as VP but that chap Zelikow is a long-time friend and colleague of Condi's and she has plenty of other highly talented people to pick from. She wouldn't pick a Cheney so we can trust her as President.
I don't think Condi would pick Sarah Palin for VP either.
Peter Dow,
Group owner
Rice for President Yahoo Group"Condoleezza Rice for President in 2012. Join this group of supporters from everywhere on the world wide web."
UTS,
I don't remember addressing you in any way. But if you wanna poke at me, ok.
uptownsteve said...So America should emulate Al Qaeda?
You missed my entire arguement, didn't you. Try reading the whole post before making a silly comment. I stated that it ISN'T TORTURE. And it is not.
We can assume you're a registered Republican, right?
Actually, I am, what's your point? You act like it's a bad thing to be a Republican. If you want to have a real debate over anything, come to my site sometime so that I don't waste space on someone else's.
too much.
I agree with you there. Too much. I think that CBW is being generous allowing your sophomoric comments.
Even if Secretary Rice didn't agree with enhanced interrogation methods, she definitely saw the fruits of those CIA laborers who extracted invaluable information to stop further attacks on this country.I agree with Cheney, Obama has made us less safe and he should be tried for treason. I can't for the life of me understand why black folks would defend terrorist who killed on Americans on 9/11. Black folk seem to equate everything with slavery, Jim Crow, lost Job opportunity and dismissive glances from a white person as a reason to hold treasonous thoughts toward America. Yes I am a registered Black Republican, will be til I depart this life. Have some respect for your country and the way it has kept you safe, believe me, I am ex-military, served in a few nasty campaigns. Take it from me, your fate in the Sudan would already be sealed.
Brilliant. Rice, we desperately need your leadership.
CBW you are very generous to allow the likes of such trollish people as uptownsteve to comment on your blog. Having said that, his statements are about the most bigoted I've heard in a while. Apparently the only proper place for a black person is in the democratic party. Black people who stray from that are being duped and are obviously not intelligent enough to make their own informed decisions.
This reasoning sounds remarkably like that used to keep Blacks on plantations and then later subject to Jim Crow oppression, but then again that makes sense since Democrats were the ones making those arguments.
@BluePitBull:
You wrote: “DJ Black Adam, torture certainly works for Al Qaeda. But that's for another time. What you are calling torture is not torture. Many Soldiers in the Army go through that treatment at the survival course.”
I am a Marine, and I went to S.E.R.E. school, and S.E.R.E. is basically TORTURE PREPERATION school. I don’t care if our government wants to play word games and call it “enhanced interrogation techniques”.
Research has shown, that when torture is utilized or “enhanced interrogation techniques” it gives you bad intelligence. People will say ANYTHING or admit to ANYTHING when sleep deprived, place in extreme cold or extreme heat for extended periods of time, water bordered or other techniques are used.
And as for “Al Qaeda”, Torture works for them to TERRORIZE PEOPLE, if that was our desired result….
@CBW
If she'd said something like "if you exclude attacks by their allies, actions just off the coast, submarine activity in our rivers and the use of espionage and sabotage agents on US soil, Nazi Germany never attacked US territory" she would have been accurate, but she didn't so she wasn't.
Bearing in mind that
1) Germany did conduct attacks within US territory during the war.
2)The OSCE did not describe Guantanamo as a model prison.
3) The ICRC were not happy with things at Guantanamo.
How can her statements not be described as (at best) misleading?
Ilé Meroë~ After about 6 seconds of grueling and painstaking research (lol) I have found evidence that Ms. Rice was telling the truth about OSCE:
Guantanamo better than Belgian prisons-OSCE expert
Posted on: Monday, 6 March 2006, 13:04 CST
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Inmates at Guantanamo Bay prison are treated better than in Belgian jails, an expert for Europe's biggest security organization said on Monday after a visit to the controversial U.S. detention center.
But Alain Grignard, deputy head of Brussels' federal police anti-terrorism unit, said that holding people for many years without telling them what would happen to them is in itself "mental torture."
"At the level of the detention facilities, it is a model prison, where people are better treated than in Belgian prisons," said Grignard.
Here is the link: http://www.redorbit.com/news/politics/417174/guantanamo_better_than_belgian_prisonsosce_expert/index.html
However, I also found an article which says that Mr.Grignard was not an employee of OSCE but a consultant....to which I say semantics. He accompanied them as an "expert", as a paid consultant if you will to render his "expert" opinion. It was his "expert" opinion that Gitmo is a "model" prison.
Also, Ms. Rice did not say that ICRC was "happy" she said "the ICRC also had access to Guantanamo, and they made no allegations about interrogations at Guantanamo. What they did say is that they believe indefinite detention, where people didn't know whether they'd come up for trial, which is why we tried with the military commissions system to let people come up for trial"But the beautiful part was when she asked..."Those trials were stayed by whom? Who kept us from holding the trials?"Do you know the answer to that question Ilé? I'm sure you know that it's Barack Obama & Company. But it's ok for him to be out of compliance with the recommendations of ICRC I guess, huh?
DJ Black Adam, I am a freshly retired Soldier after 20 years. I went to SERE as well. That doesn't make you any better in my book for being a Marine. That just means that you know the tactics work and are not torture. If they were, they couldn't have practiced them on you and the way you phrased that was disingenuous. So before you go getting all sanctimonious on someone and stating what you are and I'm not, read the bio.
You and I both know you weren't tortured, but, if you gave up information due to interrogation, that's something.
I am willing, however, since you are a service member, to listen to how you would interrogate terrorists that are allowed to lie to dhimmis because of their religion.
Ilé Meroë~
I explained that already... Grignard accompanied them as an "expert", as a paid consultant if you will to render his "expert" opinion. It was his "expert" opinion that Gitmo is a"model" prison.
I am simply saying that Ms. Rice was not misleading as a member of the delegation dispatched by OSCE described the Gitmo as a model facility. How do you know Grignard did not say that directly to Ms. Rice, and how would she know whether or not he was an "employee" of OSCE authorized to speak on their behalf. How do you know that it wasn't politically expedient for OSCE to retract Grignard's statement?
@CBW
(I mistakenly deleted my previous comment so I'm reinstating it)
Oh for goodness sake, the OSCE themselves went to the trouble of issuing a public statement explicitly saying Grignard "accompanied the delegation despatched by the Parliamentary Assembly, based in Copenhagen, but he was not employed or commissioned by the OSCE." His statements should "therefore not be taken as being made on behalf of the OSCE".
There is no ambiguity whatsoever in the statement the OSCE issued. How on earth can you insist that he worked for or represented them in some way when they have EXPLICITLY said he did not?
@Bluepitbull:
So you were in the A.int R.eady to be M.arines Y.et, won't hold that against you.
My point to you, and you should know this from your military history lessons, torture rarely, if ever, yeild credible intelligence.
As for what "I" would do, "I" would interrogate a suspected terrorist in proper Marine Corps fashion, if that was considered "torture" and if the evidence I aquired was good or if I did what I did in good faith of trying to get information I thought the detainee had, I would expect my chain of command to back me up, if I was a sadist and just wanted to hurt someone, I'd expect my chain of command to have me brought up on charges, in particular, conduct unbecoming, in EITHER CASE, I don't think "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" aka TORTURE, should be standard operating procedure for the US Military. In other words, the exception NOT the rule.
Feel free to disagree, you all are probobly stil sore from losing to NAVY.
And that's the rub, isn't it DJ Black Adam? Torture doesn't yield any valuable intel. BUT.....wait for it....interrogation does! And since that is all that was done, interrogation, it DID yield information, and credible intel.
As for your claim that I may be upset about Army losing? I have nothing but contempt for academy-trained officers, and so does the reset of the Armed Forces.
@Bluepitbull:
"I have nothing but contempt for academy-trained officers, and so does the reset of the Armed Forces."
Well, at MCRD San Diego California, WE were trained to have respect for our chain of command, wherever they got their degrees from.
Yeah, WE do to. Your ignoring what the real issue is and trying to one up me.
What was the first part of that conversation again?
And your in a recruiting depot? LOL
@CBW
Grignard couldn't have told Rice any such thing and even if he did,she wouldn't believe him.
A rough equivalent would involve an FBI terrorism expert accompanying the members of a US congressional committee to inspect a British facility for detaining suspected terrorists in order to answer any technical questions they might have. Afterwards whilst the committee is preparing their findings the FBI agent announces to a former Canadian official that he now speaks for congress. What would they think?
So to clarify, he couldn't be a member of the parliamentary assembly delegation because he's not now nor has he ever been an elected legislator from an OSCE member state.
As a serving federal law enforcement officer he can't serve as a paid consultant to his own government (it's illegal).
Ilé Meroë~Ok, before I throw in the towel...Please explain to me why he was dispatched to accompany the OSCE? Secondly, if he is a federal law enforcement officer wouldn't he be able to assess whether or not Gitmo is a model prison or not?
@Bluepitbull:
Man, now I am sincerely doubting you were ever in the military. MCRD San DIego is one of two places Marines go for Boot Camp. You claim to have went to S.E.R.E., thereby the likely hood of your MOS or even your time there bringing you into contact with Marines you surely would have known what MCRD is (not to mention Google, of which it looks like you took a quick look and ran your mouth before knowing what it was you were talking about).
Poser.
Come to my site and we can discuss it. MOS's : 19D, 96R, 96B, 35F.
You can doubt my Military service if you want, but I am sad to see that you are one of the first faces fresh Marines see on the way in with your attitude.
If you feel you need to ask me any other questions only a Soldier can answer, let me know.
And trust me, dude, Marines don't exactly have a great history with other branches of the service when it comes to inter-service relations.
So, your right about one thing: I didn't deal with many of them based on their conduct, on many occasions.
You still are avoiding the question of torture.
DJBA
Don't you know by now that the loudest chestbeating rightwingers all talk a good game but when it's time for them to put their ASSES on the line they disappear.
Or they lie about their military service.
S.E.R.E. is a USAF MOS.
The recruit training centers for the Marines are in San Diego and Parris Island..
This "blue pitbull" is more like a yellow poodle.
All name calling aside... Neither of you have discussed the thread since trying to side track this with my service record.
I could show you all of my awards and my DD214 and anything else you need to see (I just retired). But that doesn't change anything.
We know credible information has been derived from interrogations. You know it. It's documented. Quit trying to avoid what we are taking about.
"We know credible information has been derived from interrogations."
Puh-leeze..
Even McCain admitted when you torture people they'll tell you whatever you want to hear so you'll STOP.
If torture is an effective way of coercing information, why would you need to apply it dozens, indeed, hundreds of times to the same individual????
@Bluepitbull:
Where we seem two divide is on two points.
1. Where does routine interrogation end and torture begin? I say that line was crossed from what information that is available to us.
2. If the United States as a matter of POLICY should engage in torture. Of which I say no.
3. Does this type of "interrogation" or tortue get credible intellgence? I don't believe it does and if it does, not often.
We seem to have to agree to disagree.
Sadly, even though there is proof that this interrogation DOES in fact elicit information, I am done with this topic.
As far as your other topic of me never having served:
I have, in fact, served, and SERE d back in 92. I also attended a much worse interrogation, e&e course in Weingarten, Germany in a joint ops British SAS and Dutch Scouts.
I have also participated in several deployments including Desert Shield/Storm, and OIF and others. Each in a different function. I plan to detail these stories at my site, although there isn't much excitement to talk about, as you may or may not know.
@BluePitbull:
Well, I apologize for questioning your service, it appears that we served during the same time. I trained with the British Royal Marine Corps, Israeli Defense Forces, British SAS, ROK Marines, and contrary to your statement about Marines training with or having good interservice coopoeration, I havew worked not just with other NAVAL services such as the Coast Guard and many Naval units, we worked with the Air Force, and many Army Units.
In any case BPB, I am sure you learned in NCO school, gentlemen can disagree agreeably. I will try to leave it at that.
HOWEVER, please feel free to educate us with PROOF that torture yeilds good intelligence.
And as to your negative comments about the valient men and women of the United States Marine Corps, I say to you as Jamie Kennedy would say: "Don't hate...Don't hate"....
I would vote for her in a HEARTBEAT! I thank God for her and her years of service to our country.
I am white and have said for the last year that I would have supported her above ANY of the people who ran at any point in this past presidential election.
She has more sense in her little toe than Barack Obama and his entire administration. And Ms. Rice doesn't even have to tote around a teleprompter!
DJBA~You might find this article informative:
http://www.inhomelandsecurity.com/2009/05/the_effectiveness_of_gitmo_and.html#more
"I am white and have said for the last year that I would have supported her above ANY of the people who ran at any point in this past presidential election."
That's only because she didn't run.
Very convenient.
You people are such phonies.
@CBW
A bit late I know but to answer your question, Grignard was there to give delegates the benefit of his specialist knowledge. He'd also share his findings/opinions with colleagues in allied services.
I see what you're getting at and I do agree. He's an experienced law enforcement official and can be classed as an expert in that field in general and on terrorism in particular.
Well, count this "white girl" as a HUGE admirer of Secretary Rice. I have followed her career for years and I am inspired by her completely. She is sharp as a tack and by God if she wouldn't make an amazing Vice president or PRESIDENT FOR THAT MATTER! After Obama was inaugurated I sent Secretary Rice a letter thanking her for her service to our country and for the positive role model she is for so many. I am trying to pin down exactly how Liberals think that Republicans are a group of racist bigots who would not support a candidate who shared their views. This is just another sad try of trying to paint the RNC as a "old white man party" instead of the party of self empowerment without government intervention. Oh, wait I figured it out...if people were able to see the TRUE RNC message the Democrats would have no voting pool- so they have to paint an untrue picture...*sigh*...tsk tsk
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