Friday, April 10, 2009

How To Be A Hypocritical Liberal.....

This article was written in 2003 by Joe Mariani but it is just as true today as it was then:

The cult of Liberalism probably encompasses the most twisted belief systems in the world, far worse than any beliefs held since the Middle Ages by the Judeo-Christian religions they despise so much. In order to be a modern Liberal, one must abandon all use of cause-and-effect, so-called "common sense", and Occam's Razor (of equally good explanations for a phenomenon, the best one is the simplest which accounts for all the facts). One must defy logic at every turn. One must embrace the most illogical, convoluted, simply WRONG solutions for every problem.

First and foremost: to be a Liberal, one must believe that there is a finite amount of wealth in the world. For every dollar I make, for instance, there is one dollar less for someone. Every dollar I don't spend but keep is a dollar that I'm deliberately preventing someone else from having. One must believe that government, not business, creates wealth. One must conceive the idea that it's the job of the government to redress the imbalance -- that is, the government exists to hand out money, and to make sure that everyone gets an equal amount by taking it away from people that wrongfully keep it. By this twisted perversion of logic, anyone who makes a profit, keeps a bank account, owns stocks, or has anything they don't actually need is Evil. In other words: Capitalism bad, Socialism good.

To be a Liberal, one must be able to hold two contradictory beliefs at the same time. For instance: Everyone Is The Same, and Everyone Is Unique. To Liberals, no one person is better than any other, in any way. To suggest that some people are smarter, faster, stronger or more clever than others is an anathema. To be so is to have an "unfair" advantage. Should two people play chess, the winner cannot possibly have won because he is smarter or a better tactician. Suggesting it makes one arrogant, rude and "politically incorrect"; insensitive to the loser. Oh, sorry -- to the, um, non-winner (my apologies to all the losers out there). In fact, all games and competitions that result in "winners" and "losers" should be eliminated so no one can be better than anyone else. As a child, I read a science fiction story about a future where everyone was reduced to the lowest common denominator by law. The main character, a genius, had electrodes implanted in his brain in order to interrupt his train of thought every few seconds, so he couldn't think better than anyone else. He fell in love with a dancer who was forced to wear ungainly leg and arm weights so she wouldn't be more graceful than anyone else. That story gave me nightmares. I didn't know it at the time, but the author (whose name I've forgotten) was describing the perfect Liberal world. At the same time one believes everyone is the same, one must also encourage them to express their individuality, or "celebrate their diversity". How Liberals can believe that every person is equal in every way, yet has unique qualities, is the biggest mystery to me -- logic would dictate that it's one or the other. Moreover, Liberals believe that these unique qualities are shared in groups (which would make its members no longer unique -- sorry, logic again), and believe that every group is ALSO equal to every other while being unique at the same time. Note that Liberals aren't insisting all people should be TREATED equally -- a founding principle of our nation -- but that they ARE equal, which defies logic. Generally, this is done from the standpoint of victimhood. Liberals believe that everyone is a victim of the majority group (Rich White Straight Males) in some way, which actively prevents everyone from being equal. Poor people are victims of the Rich -- if it weren't for the Rich hoarding all those dollars, no one would be Poor. Black/Hispanic/Asian/Amerindian people are victims of the Whites. Women are victims of the Males, Gays are victims of the Straights. Victims, of course, are owed recompense by their oppressors. Recompense or restitution must be paid in two ways, Liberals insist -- Money and Privelege. If one is "lucky" enough to belong to an oppressed group, Rich White Straight Men owe him or her something. Money being self-explanatory, we'll move to Privelege.

Liberals feel that Privelege should be paid in different forms. One would think that preferential treatment might easily be paid to the Poor in terms of jobs, but that's not the Liberal solution. That would actually alleviate the problem, depriving them of power! No, the Rich can only help the Poor in purely monetary terms. Since (according to Liberals) the Rich are also White, Straight, and Male, the jobs they can offer should not go to the Poor, which might help them help themselves, but to non-Whites, non-Straights, and non-Males. Instead of helping the Poor to better their condition in a long-term way, the Liberals insist on short-term solutions for them. Nothing is preventing those non-Whites, non-Straights and non-Males from getting jobs, but they must be given preferential treatment they don't need! In fact, they should get jobs even if they cannot perform them well, which harms the company they work for, which reduces the number of jobs the company can offer and the amount of money the Rich can give the Poor! The Liberals call this "Affirmative Action", but its effects are generally negative.

To be a Liberal, one must believe that Segregation and Exclusion are bad, and that Segregation and Exclusion are also good. Any of the "oppressed" groups can exclude Straight White Males (part of the "Privelege" they are "owed"), but for SWMs to exclude anyone at all is the worst form of oppression. One can have, for instance, a Miss Black America competition or a Miss Latina USA pageant (funded by private groups) in which Whites cannot compete, but not an all-White private golf course, or even exclude Hispanic women from competing for the title of Miss America (also funded by private groups) on the grounds that they have their own separate pageant! Every ethnic and ideological group is given special treatment except Straight White Males -- who supposedly have all the power. Here's a prime example... The Harvey Milk High School in New York City is about to become big news around the country. Founded in 1984 as a private school, it's about to go public, and will soon recieve its first Senatorial visit (from Hillary Clinton, of course). Last year, the school received a huge budgetary increase and is tripling its enrollment. 3.2 million taxpayer dollars are being spent on renovation and expansion. For a public school, that's all excellent news, isn't it?

The reason WHY this will be such a big news story, and why I'm so unimpressed by it, is that the Harvey Milk High School is exclusively gay. They openly and purposefully exclude straight students. The students are all gay, the teachers are gay, the curriculum teaches "from a gay perspective". (I'm using the term "gay" here to cover the "gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth (LGBTQ)" the school caters to.) The principal of the school has not been hired by the NYC school board, but by a private gay advocacy group, the Hetrick-Martin Institute, in an unusual move for a public school (to say the LEAST).

Let's reverse the scenario for a minute and imagine the nuclear explosion of outrage we'd hear from the Left. Let's find a private school that openly admits only heterosexuals. Gays will be barred from teaching at or attending. (If you can find a school like that in America, the FBI has a career waiting for you!.) Let's turn the school into a public institution funded by the government, and spend several million taxpayer dollars expanding and refurbishing it. We'll have a private vehemently anti-gay group like The American Family Association run the school, and choose the principal. No gays will be allowed, remember, at our public school. The curriculum will teach strictly from a "heterosexual perspective", whatever that is. The Liberals in this country would suffer a meltdown before the first day of classes. Should we allow a public school to be run by the KKK? The National Rifle Association? I know -- how about a high school run by the anti-abortion National Right to Life Committee? Wouldn't it be only fair to allow other private interest groups to run high schools? I can hear the Liberals spontaneously detonating in umbrage now.

So why are we expected to swallow this sort of openly anti-Straight White Male bias with a smile? I wonder why the standards the Left pretends to espouse -- tolerance, desegregation, and fairness to "all" -- don't apply to US. Liberals should not be allowed to run a mass social engineering enterprise in the heart of New York City at public expense. No one will actually benefit from it -- certainly not the misfits it will produce. How can they learn to get along in a society they are insulated from? (Source)- emphasis added

36 comments:

JudyBright said...

I think I read that book in high school, or one very similar. It was a short story. I often think about it in terms of socialism.

DJ Black Adam said...

Any truth that nay be offered is nulified by the blatant fictions and intellectual deceptions presented in this piece.

Katrina said...

Thanks for posting this CBW. This describes the extreme-left liberal to the tee.

Tolerance only applies to those that they like!

uptownsteve said...

"One can have, for instance, a Miss Black America competition or a Miss Latina USA pageant (funded by private groups) in which Whites cannot compete, but not an all-White private golf course, or even exclude Hispanic women from competing for the title of Miss America (also funded by private groups) on the grounds that they have their own separate pageant!"
Every ethnic and ideological group is given special treatment except Straight White Males -- who supposedly have all the power."

When I hear black people spewing bull$hit like this I don't know whether to laugh or get sick.

CBW be for real.

The reason why there are Miss Black USA and Miss Latina pageants is until very recently these groups were excluded from the Mc USA pageants.

Over the years, just like HBCUs, these pageant gained a certain clientel of sponsors and organizations who made money off the events thus their continuance.

And if you have any evidence that whites are barred from these pageants, produce it here.

More lies from the right.

Always ready to throw yourself in front of a speeding train for white folks, aren't ya black righties?

Conservative Black Woman said...

oh DJBA & UTS~ Eat the fish and spit out the bones. I'm conflicted by the whole straight white male language, it's uncomfortable but there is more to this article than those 2 paragraphs.

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJ Black Adam said...

@Uptown:

"CBW be for real. The reason why there are Miss Black USA and Miss Latina pageants is until very recently these groups were excluded from the Mc USA pageants."

Yep. It's one thing when uninformed White spit that crap, but when Blacks cosign....it is pathetic.

Its amazing, white folks discrimated systemactically againts blacks and other non-whites for 400 years, and have the nerve to bi*TCH and moan when we set up our own things?

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"oh DJBA & UTS~ Eat the fish and spit out the bones."

Oh, so you would say that when talking about things that Minister Louis Farrakhan writes or Jerimiah Wright?

uptownsteve said...

As for the rest of the piece, it's all a bunch of white supremacist victim speech in code.

Of course people are not equal, that's why white folks have been running everything for the last 500years, isn't that what he's saying?

And the coup de grace.

The dreaded "reparations".

Why should white folks (as if black folks don't pay taxes) for the obvious inferiority of the mud people and the inequality that it engendered.

But correct me if I'm wrong but weren't 99% of the folks on Capitol Hill last begging for taxpayer handouts to repair their corporate incompetence WHITE MALES???

Conservative Black Woman said...

I wouldn't call it pathetic. I know it's not a popular opinion but I personally do think HBCU (which Whites could attend if they choose to)are a bit provencial and I'm extremely disappointed that my daughter has chosen to attend an HBCU. I marvel at how we want to be considered equals but insist on remaining separate in many areas. I don't think that we really want Unity.

Conservative Black Woman said...

BTW, I have highlighted that which I considered fish (truth) for ya in this article. But of course UTS & DJBA will not speak to those passages.

Classic.

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

"BTW, I have highlighted that which I considered fish (truth) for ya in this article. But of course UTS & DJBA will not speak to those passages."

I'm your huckleberry. Soon as I get back from lunch, I will deal speacifically with the following:

"Poor people are victims of the Rich -- if it weren't for the Rich hoarding all those dollars, no one would be Poor. Black/Hispanic/Asian/Amerindian people are victims of the Whites. Women are victims of the Males, Gays are victims of the Straights. Victims, of course, are owed recompense by their oppressors. Recompense or restitution must be paid in two ways, Liberals insist -- Money and Privelege"

Ought to be fun...

uptownsteve said...

"I know it's not a popular opinion but I personally do think HBCU (which Whites could attend if they choose to)are a bit provencial and I'm extremely disappointed that my daughter has chosen to attend an HBCU. I marvel at how we want to be considered equals but insist on remaining separate in many areas. I don't think that we really want Unity."

This is absolutely insane CBW.

These institutions have tradition and alumni.

I'm so glad that my oldest son chose Howard University (his mother's alma mater) and if I had it to do all over again I would have gone to a HBCU and maybe I would've graduated in 4 years as opposed to getting very disillusioned after two years in the SUNY system, enlisting in the US Coast Guard and then attending night school at the Univ of MD for 4 more years before I graduated.

CBW, are Catholic Universities like Villanova or St. John's provinicial?

If not why not?

How about Yeshiva University?

DJ Black Adam said...

@CBW:

Let's deal with the FIRST sentence: ""Poor people are victims of the Rich -- if it weren't for the Rich hoarding all those dollars, no one would be Poor."

Ah, the ver so popular "False Dichotomy". "Some" Rich People are the primary problem for many poor people, not because they have the money; BUT because some of that money is made off of benefitting off of the misery of the poor (both here and abroad).

Exploitation. I'm sure cretins like JMK will say hey "buyer beware" and other such conservative euphoniums and platitude that serve to remove any social responsibility for the rich business owners of the world. Fact is if the rich could make people work 80 hour weeks, work children, or work people for 1.00 an hour, they would (hell they have).

Like we have laws to keep people, the average citizen in check from their greed, so too does the government have a responsibility to keep the ultra rich in check from their greed.

No one is saying the rich should give the poor all their money, I am saying that they much be watched as much and if not more than the average citizen.

uptownsteve said...

"Fact is if the rich could make people work 80 hour weeks, work children, or work people for 1.00 an hour, they would (hell they have).

Like we have laws to keep people, the average citizen in check from their greed, so too does the government have a responsibility to keep the ultra rich in check from their greed.

No one is saying the rich should give the poor all their money, I am saying that they much be watched as much and if not more than the average citizen."

OUTSTANDING!!!

blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com said...

Hey there!

This is a rich piece!

Thanks for sharing!

Peace, blessings and godliness,
Lisa

Conservative Black Woman said...

These institutions have tradition and alumni."<----True. But, I'm am still not happy that Mini-me has chosen to go to Spelman. Perhaps if the admission requirements were not so "freaking" low, I would feel better. I paid a veritable mint for that child's education. If had known she was going to be shooting for a school which only requires a 1200 SAT score then I would have sent her little butt to Anacostia HS. My trajectory for her was a Pepperdine, Stanford, or Princeton. Oh well...I'm over it now. The HBCU want to regarded as excellent academic institutions but there admission standards are so low that Boo-Boo the fool ranks. That's what turns me off. I find it rather embarrassing. So they aren't provential because they are black schools. They are provential because they have lower expectations for their applicants which implicitly says that Blacks can't meet the higher standard and are therefore "intellectually disadvantaged". So, you understand that after sacrificing, and even struggling financially in order that my kid wouldn't be "intellectually disadvantaged" she chooses to play in that ball park....but, I'm over it now.

"Catholic Universities like Villanova or St. John's provinicial?<----Do they lower the admission standards for Catholic applicants? If so, yes. If not, no.

uptownsteve said...

"If had known she was going to be shooting for a school which only requires a 1200 SAT score then I would have sent her little butt to Anacostia HS."

Oh please stop this bs CBW.

A 1200 SAT score will get you in just about every institution in the country except the very top elite Ivy league schools.

Spellman is an outstanding institution with a proud history and an impressive alumni list.

How long are you black righties going to perpetuate these lies??

Quotas and special points are a thing of the past.

Illegal in CA, TX, and MI.

"Catholic Universities like Villanova or St. John's provinicial?<----Do they lower the admission standards for Catholic applicants? If so, yes. If not, no."

Are you actually suggesting that HBCU lower standards??????

Howard, Spellman, Morehouse, Bethune-Cookman and Xavier in LA rank among the top 100 institutions in higher learning in the nation according to polls of educators.

I've had enough black self-hatred for today.

Have a nice weekend CBW.

Don't eat too much watermelon.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"A 1200 SAT score will get you in just about every institution in the country except the very top elite Ivy league schools."

Not true check out www.princetonreview.com

Conservative Black Woman said...

"Are you actually suggesting that HBCU lower standards??????"

Yep, again check out www.princetonreview.com

Conservative Black Woman said...

Spelman (It's not even 1200)

Freshman Academic Profile
Admissions Selectivity Rating: 92
SAT:
% Submitting Score: 78%
Critical Reading Middle 50%: 500 - 580
Math Middle 50%: 490 - 570

Georgetown (not even Ivy league but you need more than 1200)
Admissions
Admissions Selectivity Rating:98SAT: Reading Middle 50%:650 - 740 Math Middle 50%:660 - 750

Emory (ooh, again you need more than 1200)

Admissions
Admissions Selectivity Rating:98SAT: Reading Middle 50%:640 - 740 Math Middle 50%:670 - 760 Writing Middle 50%:650 - 740

Howard U.(a little better)
Admissions
Admissions Selectivity Rating:87SAT: Reading Middle 50%:460 - 660 Math Middle 50%:440 - 650 Writing Middle 50%:410

UVA (I'm starting to see a pattern)
Admissions
Admissions Selectivity Rating:97SAT: Reading Middle 50%:600 - 710 Math Middle 50%:620 - 730 Writing Middle 50%:610 - 720

Clark Atlanta (Another HBCU - ouch)
Admissions
Admissions Selectivity Rating:60SAT: Reading Middle 50%:420 - 490 Math Middle 50%:410 - 480

So UTS tell me who is doing the hating. Me, a concerned parent with faith in my child's ability or these HBCU who do not think she can cut the mustard.

Anonymous said...

you win CBW. You are right. I am glad that the nice white folks let me be a slave, and lynched me in the 60s. The nice white man even felt sorry and let me vote, and clean up elephant dung. I should oberlook getting racially profiled and denied credit cause of my skin color. i am just happy almighty whitey allows me to even sit in the front of the bus.

Conservative Black Woman said...

With all due respect Anonymous, How in the hell is that relevent. If you are trying to call me a Tom in a clever way--that was weak. Why don't you try responding either to the posted article or the conversation in this thread. Geez, I so wish my people could find something substantive to say other than the "tom" shizzle....it's so mind-numbingly stupid.

Patriotic American said...

CWB, in any number of comments made by some of your readers, the same theme arises:

Anything a Conservative says is racist, a lie, or pathetic.

Tough crowd.

Tough, intellectually dishonest crowd. The "You're just an Aunt Jemima" tone from some is blatant.

That's too bad. I find your writing to be honest, concerned, and open.

Keep up the great work. I enjoy coming here.

uptownsteve said...

Patriotic American,

A white conservative I assume.

Ya'll jes luv dem black righties, doncha?

They just can't marry your sister though, right?

uptownsteve said...

"So UTS tell me who is doing the hating."

Jee-suz you provided a very selective list.

You don't need a 1200 SAT score to get into most state schools and many of the big Catholic institutions.

Why are you singling out HBCUs if you're not trying denigrate black folks and black institutions?

Patriotic American said...

Quite a lot of hostility and bigotry there, uptown.

If either of my daughters married an ambitious, responsible, loving, and faithful man of any race, I'd be happy. As long as my daughters were happy, I really don't care.

If either married a man with a chip on his shoulder, a bucolic personality, and a liberal point of view, I would not be happy.

But, then, the question isn't what my inclinations are. Rather, it is why there is a need by some to denigrate CWB. It's not like CWB is advocating racism.

Conservative Black Woman said...

"You don't need a 1200 SAT score to get into most state schools and many of the big Catholic institutions.

Why are you singling out HBCUs if you're not trying denigrate black folks and black institutions?"

You seem to have selective memory as to how the topic of black schools has arisen so let me remind you. This article talks about minority groups forming organizations to the exclusion of other and mentioned that (even though whites & others are prohibited from attending)that I found HBCU's to be provential not because they are black but because they have lower admission standards. I mentioned 1200 but after further review to my dismay the admission standard for Spelman which is regarded as an excellent school is 1180 and it just gets worst from their with the exception of Howard which I think is a little higher. UTS the highest combined score of SAT's is 2400 --800 math, 800 verbal, 800 writing-- with the exception of Howard no HBCU even look at the writing score and you are right many traditions schools do not either in which case 1200 is a decent score. But here is my beef and it's doesn't have squat to do with hating all things black, my beef is that I poured thousands upon thousands of dollars into my daughter's education and have accepted nothing less than excellence from her academically since kindergarden and I would expect an institution of higher learning to have HIGH expectations for their incoming students. I placed my kid on a certain trajectory -- she scored close over 1800 on her SAT's yet chooses a school that only required 1180. I know there is more to a school than just the admission standards but I think it's disingenuious for HBCU's to tout themselves as superior institutions but aren't discriminating enough to select superior students. It's that simple. They need to raise the standard & stop lowering the bar.

JMK said...

“I'm sure cretins like JMK will say hey "buyer beware" and other such conservative euphoniums and platitude that serve to remove any social responsibility for the rich business owners of the world...” (DJBA)
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This is why it’s so hard for folks like me to avoid descending into insult and personal attack...those on the Left can’t make arguments so they respond with foolish insults and attacks.

I guess “cretin” means “those DJBA can’t make an argument against,” because virtually every exchange between DJBA and I has resulted in his retreating into “I guess we’ll just have to disagree,” OR “I didn’t see that quote as implying that,” or other such blatant retreats.

A wise move in all circumstances, but no cause for insult, is it? So why debase yourself with it?
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“Fact is if the rich could make people work 80 hour weeks, work children, or work people for 1.00 an hour, they would (hell they have). (DJBA)
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GOVERNMENT worked citizens the SAME hours that private industry did back then!

Moreover, it was a private industry, Ford Motor Company that first paid its workers more than double the prevailing rate, so long as they produced and lived up to “Ford standards.” It was Henry Ford who shamed the government into reforming itself and the workplace.
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“Like we have laws to keep people, the average citizen in check from their greed...” (DJBA)
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No we don’t!

There are laws that keep you and I from leaving our current employers to take jobs for more pay and better benefits?

No, there are NOT.

Are you then saying there are laws that keep you or I from investing as much of our own incomes as we want to try and leverage and make as much money as we can?

Again, there are NO such laws!

OK, so are there laws that restrict either of us from going out and starting our own business and making as much money as we possibly can?

AGAIN, no there aren’t.

The FACT is that there IS NOT “only a certain amount of wealth available.”

That’s called a “Malthusian argument...and it’s FALSE!

Wealth is constantly expanding and contracting and it’s ONLY expanded by the growth of private enterprise. Aggregate wealth SHRINKS as a result of the growth of government.

The accruing of inordinate amounts of wealth by individuals DOES NOT deny wealth to any of the rest of us, in fact, it INCREASES the aggregate amount of wealth available and increases opportunities for ALL.
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“No one is saying the rich should give the poor all their money...” (DJBA)
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Well, THAT’S a relief.

An old saying goes that, “If all the wealth in the world were divided up equally today, within ten years we’d have the very same disproportionate outcome we have today, and with few exceptions, those who’ve built fortunes today, would be those who’d have accrued the most in ten years.”

True enough.

But most vitally of all is the FACT that the accrual of wealth by individuals does NOT decrease the wealth available to others.

DJ Black Adam said...

@JMK:

"No we don’t! There are laws that keep you and I from leaving our current employers to take jobs for more pay and better benefits?"

See THAT is why I call you "cretin", you just can't help from trying to frame your positions on purposed fictional strawmen. A contrario, an appropriate comparison would be the laws in place that keep me from taking money or goods from a business that I think they won't miss.

When you want to have an HONEST Debate, then we can, I can't really debate people who create fictions to further their point and deny reality, that is why I generally just agree to disagree, I don't like to waste time in futile exercises with people who are so dogmatic about their ideas that they can't see past them. Your limitations on apprehension of actuality are YOUR problem, not mine.

Ab uno disce omnes.

DJ Black Adam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JMK said...

See THAT is why I call you "cretin", you just can't help from trying to frame your positions on purposed fictional strawmen. A contrario, an appropriate comparison would be the laws in place that keep me from taking money or goods from a business that I think they won't miss.


No, THAT invidious comparison makes YOU a cretin.

In FACT, EVERY business owner is subject to the VERY SAME criminal statutes that you and I are subjected to.

See?

They put those kinds of criminals like Bernie Madoff, John Rigas (Adelphia) and Dennis Kozlowski (Tyco) in prison for their CRIMINAL behavior, just as they imprison embezzlers.

GREED is NOT "taking what doesn't belong to you."

GREED is actually best defined as, "WANTING/taking a piece of what you haven't produced."

But even if greed WERE defined as "Maximizing profit at the expense of others"....the worker (like YOU or I) who leaves one employer for higher pay without regard to how that will effect the production where we work, is every bit AS GUILTY of that kind of "greed" as is the business owner who maximizes his own company's profits without regard to others.....thankfully, there are NO laws against such productive and self-responsible actions YET.

I can see your frustrations....you haven't made a single affirmative argument in favor of what you claim to beleive in ANY of your many exchanges with me.

While I sympathize, it is not my fault that you can't make a cogent, compelling argument for what you believe.

uptownsteve said...

Patrictic American,

"If either married a man with a chip on his shoulder, a bucolic personality, and a liberal point of view, I would not be happy."

And of course any black person who doesn't grin in your face and expound on the wonders of white folks fits this template in your mind, right?

Sell it at the crossburning goober.

23eagle said...

When you have a columnist in the UK of all places callin' you a pantywaste surrender monkey, things are gettin' pretty obvious!

I'm laughin. I'm crying. I'm laughin...

Miss Florida Latina said...

Dear uptoensteve:

There is a Miss Latina Pageant for Latinas in Florida.

For more infomation please visit www.missfloridalatina.com

Beyond The Political Spectrum said...

It would be delusional to believe that one can't find hypocrisy in conservative political beliefs and principles (but as I have seen before one can always distinguish a "difference").